*BSD News Article 98897


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From: jonathan@DSG.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan Stone)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Re: decstation 5000/133: linux/MIPS, OpenBSD/pmax or NetBSD/pmax
Date: 2 Jul 1997 23:27:26 GMT
Organization: Stanford Distributed Systems Group
Lines: 83
Sender: jonathan@Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan Stone)
Message-ID: <5peo4u$s61$1@nntp.Stanford.EDU>
References: <867662387.22833@dejanews.com> <33b787ba.0@rainbow.hrz.uni-siegen.de> <5pd48e$e4i$1@nntp.Stanford.EDU> <33babc1b.0@rainbow.hrz.uni-siegen.de>
Reply-To: jonathan@DSG.Stanford.EDU
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Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:6201 comp.unix.bsd.misc:3634 comp.unix.ultrix:29053

In article <33babc1b.0@rainbow.hrz.uni-siegen.de>, engel@numerik.math.uni-siegen.de (Michael Engel) writes:
 
> Heavens, I didn't want to start that old Net vs. OpenBSD dispute again ! :-)

But Comparisons of the two are a good way to do that.
If the comparison is based on out-of-date facts, it's almost certain :).


> : NetBSD 1.3 will be out this summer-ish; it will have;
> 
> :   * shared libraries (of course)
> :   * X11R6.3 clients and X11R5 Xserver
> :   * ext2fs support, in case you really want to share disks with Linux.
> 
> This is especially nice, since it will make our Linux port to the MIPSels
> easier !

But why would you even bother with a Linux port, if you can run MIPS
linux binaries on NetBSD in emulation mode??

> 
> [...]
> : Even the LBL
> : multicast toolset for Ultrix works, which is pretty impressive,
> : considering that IPmulticast support for Ultrix was third-party kernel
> : patches.
> 
> Yes, I know the multicast patches. _This_ is really impressive !

Uh, you're welcome ;).


> And the lots of bugs in the different PROM revisions don't make life easier.
>
> I have two otherwise identical DS2100 here, one with PROM rev. 7.0, the
> other with 7.01. The one with 7.0 is unable to boot kernels of more than
> 1 MB in size via tftp, the 7.01 PROM works well ...

I know how that feels. the 5000/120 I upgraded to a 5000/150 won't
tftpboot NetBSD kernels at all.

But in your case, you could always pull the PROMs out and copy from
the 7.01 PROM to the other.  I don't know how DEC would view that.
Would they lose any revenue from allowing that?  If not, it might
happen when they officially abandon support for Ultrix.

> : Installation of either NetBSD and OpenBSD is very similar. In fact,
> : significant portions of the OpenBSD installation guide are copied
> : verbatim from the NetBSD 1.2 release documentation, complete with the
> : typos and spelling errors ;).
> 
> I was also amused when I realised that ;-) ...

I'm confused.  Exactly *what* about the OpenBSD installation is easier
than NetBSD?  NetBSD now has a diskimage install, and you could almost
follow those portions of the OpenBSD notes that weren't just
plagiarized from my NetBSD text.  And the OpenBSD/pmax Web page points
you at the NetBSD/pmax Web page if you run into installation problems.

 
> [...]
> 
> Btw., do you have _any_ documentation on the Personal DECstations and 
> the 5000/1xx systems lying around ? We could use some of that for our
> Linux port for the DECstations.

No, I just have the 4.4BSD/pmax source code, and folklore.

I'm rather puzzled why anyone would invest time in porting Linux to
DECstations.  It's like comparing *BSD and Linux. Except in the case
of DECstations, the momentum and user-base is relaly on the *BSD side,
not Linux!

Most of the DECstation userbase is used to Ultrix, which is a BSD
system.  The existing free-Unix-on-DEcstation user base is used to
either NetBSD or OpenBSD.  The expertise on how to install free-Unix,
on device-drivers, and on machine-specific code is all in the *BSD
camps. I don't know if there's an already-existing set of precompiled
binaries for Linux/MIPS.  But if there is, and you want to run them,
you should be able to run them under NetBSD's emulation mode.

It sounds like a case of NIH to me.  And if you want to do DECstation
kernel hacking, you're welcome to hack on NetBSD :).