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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.syd.connect.com.au!news.bri.connect.com.au!fjholden.OntheNet.com.au!not-for-mail From: Tony Griffiths <tonyg@OntheNet.com.au> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: Cheap ISDN solutions [was: What's the state of ISDN support?] Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:26:27 +1000 Organization: On the Net (ISP on the Gold Coast, Australia) Lines: 70 Message-ID: <335C05B3.34A0@OntheNet.com.au> References: <33303AE2.503C@cmr.no> <5gqhjt$k3t$1@gail.ripco.com><333226A6.ABD322C@FreeBSD.org> <5hqooq$gtn@ui-gate.utell.co.uk><33423F01.167EB0E7@net-tel.co.uk><5hvtj8$e44@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> <139@fridaycs.win-uk.net> <861220198.962@dejanews.com> <3356CAEE.1258@OntheNet.com.au> <E8uFJ5.117@europipe.com> Reply-To: tonyg@OntheNet.com.au NNTP-Posting-Host: swanee.nt.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) To: udo@no.email.address.for.all.the.spam Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:39474 Udo Munk wrote: > [...] > But that's not all about it. For an ISDN connection you also need > a time slice wide enough for 64Kbits/s on the backbone of the providers If you're talking about the "local exchange" box's switching fabric, then it has plenty of time slices available. In the case we are discussing, the 64Kbps bit stream is coming in on the 144Kbps BRI and then being mux'd into (I presume) the ISP's PRI 1.5Mbps stream. I don't see any bits flying across the Telecom's 'backbone' here! This is the reason why it is SO cheap. All of the hardware used in the call is effectively dedicated to the pairs of wires involved and is there, powered up and working, regardless of whether there is a call established or not... If anyone should be complaining, it should be the ISP because the long-held call is holding up one of the B-channels of the PRI. If the call is to a business (ie. telecommuting) then enough B-channels have to be provided to cater for the maximum number of simultaneous calls. I believe that the case we are discussing is telecommuting where the $60/m is the ISDN rental to the local switch provider. Do you pay that much for your telephone rental? The only difference (in the case of Australia) is a jumper on the line card in the RIM box down the end of the street saying that this is ISDN rather than analogue! The called party is also paying for their end so effectively ALL of the intrastructure being used IS being payed for as far as the Telco is concerned. > switching device. When you got a dialup connection and not a permanent one > you're on a system where the number of available time slices is less > than no_of_customers/2, guess why there is a price difference between > a dialup connection and a permanent one. So if you use up a time slice > without actually using it and anyone else does the same, you force In Australia, the price cross-over point between an SVC and an SPC (Semi-Permanent Connection; Telstra doesn't offer REAL PVC's) is 2 hrs per day. > the provider to upgrade their network switching devices. Someone has > to pay for that, they won't do that for nothing. Also with connect times In fact, an 'idle' B-channel is simply sending idling bits (flags). I would sincerely hope that the switches are smart enough to NOT send idle bits across the country/world!!! In other words, an idle B-channel should not be consuming bandwidth on the Telecom's long-distance fibres. > usage of the available bandwith found appropriate. The next thing you > demand is that your ISP guarantees you an exclusive bandwith of > 64Kbits/s 24x7 to everywhere, for $20 per month of course <g> I don't demand anything... Being a 25% shareholder in a smallish regional ISP I can tell you that we don't subscribe to the "All you can eat for almost no $$$s!" philosophy. We have bills to pay, and our employees don't work for peanuts. And then we want to see some return for the LARGE number of hours that all the directors put in to keeping the business running and growing the way it is. However, if an ISP offers 24x7 ISDN at a fixed low price then they have to live with the consequences of their decision. If it's uneconomic, then they will simply have to change their policies or go our of business. Noone else is going to protect them from their own stupidity! We are already seeing the fallout of the "we're prepared to lose money on each new customer BUT make it up in 'volume'" marketing strategy of some of the bigger players in the US. I glad I don't own any shares in companies that think that way... Tony