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Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.wildstar.net!news.ececs.uc.edu!newsfeeds.sol.net!feed1.news.erols.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!EU.net!main.Germany.EU.net!Hanover.Germany.EU.net!Hamburg.Germany.EU.net!news.netuse.de!gtnduss1.du.gtn.com!ertgseq.rtg.europipe.com!udomunk From: udomunk@ertgseq.du.gtn.com (Udo Munk) Subject: Re: Cheap ISDN solutions [was: What's the state of ISDN support?] Reply-To: udo@no.email.address.for.all.the.spam Organization: Europipe GmbH, Germany Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:03:47 GMT Message-ID: <E8zzEB.G59@europipe.com> X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] X-Nntp-Posting-Host: emueclu1-2.mue.europipe.com References: <33303AE2.503C@cmr.no> <5gqhjt$k3t$1@gail.ripco.com> <5jas30$h5d@uriah.heep.sax.de> Sender: news@europipe.com (News) Lines: 30 Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:39457 J Wunsch (j@uriah.heep.sax.de) wrote: : That's only since the ISDN standardizing people were too stupid to : also supply a non-guaranteed, statistical service (like Ethernet). : This would have been totally sufficient for IP, but that's what you : get when telephone people design a standard for data communication: : they don't have a clue about it, and a service that's not ``reliable'' : in its data transfer guarantees simply cannot happen in their brains. Ahem, I would appreciate it if you would switch on your brain before you call others stupid and clueless. I have nothing to do with the protocol specification, but I was one of those who worked for the major telecom companies here to bring up ISDN. The protocol never ever was developed with TCP/IP in mind, those telephone people developed it with voice communication and slow motion picture communication in mind. This both forms of communication just aren't connectionless and packet oriented like ethernet is by nature, instead you need to get a constant bitstream of data transfered in a fixed time raster. And they were aware that the transport layer isn't reliable, which isn't necessary for voice communication. That is why reliable protocols on layers above the transport layer were developed later (not by telephone people). It's pretty easy to blame others when they developed a protocol for their needs, which doesn't fit your needs when you are mis-using it for something, it wasn't developed for in the first place, isn't it? Have you played with internet phone software lately? How about blaming those who developed the TCP/IP protocols for not considering, that one sometimes has to transport a constant bitstream in realtime from one point to another? ;-) Oh, It never was thought for that, I see... -- Udo Munk http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Udo_Munk/