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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!metro!munnari.OZ.AU!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!agate!theos.com!deraadt From: deraadt@theos.com (Theo de Raadt) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc Subject: Re: Why no addusr? Date: 11 Feb 1997 02:18:45 GMT Organization: Theo Ports Kernels For Fun And Profit Lines: 90 Message-ID: <DERAADT.97Feb10191845@zeus.theos.com> References: <none-ya023480001912962244220001@news.infi.net> <DERAADT.97Feb8183929@zeus.theos.com> <5dmh68$ckm@panix2.panix.com> <DERAADT.97Feb10034559@zeus.theos.com> <5dnfrp$gob@panix2.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.theos.com In-reply-to: tls@panix.com's message of 10 Feb 1997 10:46:01 -0500 Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:5368 In article <5dnfrp$gob@panix2.panix.com> tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon) writes: Which is an archive of email redistributed without permission, in violation of copyright, which you're damned lucky not to have been sued over. Look, Theo, whatever I may think of you or your project put entirely aside, posting that email is incredibly slimy. It's illegal. It's unethical. So sue me :-) It reflects very poorly upon you and upon OpenBSD as a whole. You're pretty sure about that, right? There are 17 people on our OpenBSD development icb server at this moment. It reflects poorly on them too, right? No, I think none of this is the case. "coremail" was my action and could not reflect upon OpenBSD at all. And I think it only reflects badly upon me in the eyes of a bunch of your friends. Anyone who is unable to overcome the temptation to read Theo's "coremail" A couple hundred have been unable to overcome the temptation. archive should bear firmly in mind that A) it's hardly the entire story of what happened, and B) a number of the other people involved have *declined* to make public a great deal of other relevant correspondence, for the exact reason which Theo seems to be ignoring: that redistributing other people's email without permission is unethical and a violation of copyright. I have invited many of your friends to show another side to the story, and noone has ever provided one. Go ahead, search old news postings and mailing lists. The party line that kept being repeated is "That is not public information", etc, etc. And if they don't start making some sort of "other side of the story" available, well then I guess my "made up" story is the only one that will stand in time. Since it continually makes the NetBSD core members "look bad", well, that's their problem. And I am sure ethics were not a part of the equation considering the entire thing started over a "series of cursing mail bombings" and "forwarding of mail without permission" -- my mail. >That file shows everything that happened (or at least all the >information I have on what happened). Which is to say, it's your point of view, only your point of view, it omits every other side in what was an extremely multifaceted discussion, and that it's very easy to draw the wrong conclusion by reading it. The "other side" has had a very long time to come up with "their point of view". Also, I can't believe you are calling it a "multifaceted discussion" as any reading of coremail will make clear. Not to mention that one shouldn't, since doing so is unethical and illegal. Heh. Thor, until the day I posted coremail people were being told that I was "not acting in faith" during negotiations. The day I made coremail available to prove that I was acting in faith during negotiations, that accusation stopped. Heh. Then they started accusing me of "unethical behaviour in forwarding mail"! That's OK with me. I wish I hadn't needed to make coremail available, but the day I did I was able to start work again. I started OpenBSD. And there are a lot of people working on it now. It's a healthy growing project. We've got some great source tree action going on! Very few of the people who work on OpenBSD today hold the release of "coremail" against me. I actually think that OpenBSD would not be as successful today if I had decided to not release coremail. At some point I just had to make a stand and prove that I had been acting in good faith towards NetBSD negotiations, and that I was not the block. Our team has grown rapidly :-). Obviously "coremail" does not speak against the project. Obviously it isn't a problem for a majority of the developers. Obviously working on code is more interesting to them (as it was for me, ie. NetBSD) Anyways, I'm going back to hacking. This is a waste of time until you provide some FACTS to prove that coremail is false. http://www.theos.com/~deraadt/coremail -- This space not left unintentionally unblank. deraadt@theos.com www.OpenBSD.org -- We're fixing security problems so you can sleep at night.