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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.ysu.edu!news.radio.cz!voskovec.radio.cz!news.radio.cz!CESspool!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!news.texas.net!node2.frontiernet.net!Empire.Net!usenet From: patrick mcandrew <pmcandre@tiac.net> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.sys.sun.misc Subject: Re: Sparc vs. x86 speed (was Re: Linux vs BSD) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 04:21:44 -0500 Organization: Empire.Net, Inc. (603) 889-1220 Lines: 62 Message-ID: <32EC73A8.3E75A867@tiac.net> References: <32DFFEAB.7704@usa.net> <5c58n9$hcb@innocence.interface-business.de> <32E66DE1.7E36AB48@samart.co.th> <5c8b0o$313$1@capsicum.wsrcc.com> <mumfordE4H6FI.Cr1@netcom.com> <32E75738.64D34A1F@tiac.net> <5cj8hj$1cm$1@capsicum.wsrcc.com> <32EDD877.52DB@Informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE> <5cm758$d80$1@cantuc.canterbury.ac.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: nashua-ppp57.empire.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i486) Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.networking:66634 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:5799 comp.unix.bsd.misc:2127 comp.sys.sun.misc:28134 Mr M S Aitchison wrote: > > In article <32EDD877.52DB@Informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE>, Michael Froehlich <mfr@Informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE> writes: > > Do you have a source for the $20,000 claim from above? > > *List* prices for the Ultra 1 starts at $8,000 (140MHz, 17", > > 64MB, 2GB), street prices are lower... > > Comparing systems is tough. Sun price low-end unexpandable boxes very low due > to market pressures (SGI etc do the same)... it is a big jump up to something > with a slightly higher clock speed and capable of taking more RAM, CPUs, etc. > > This happens to a small extent in the PC market (a dual PPro motherboard is > much more expensive, but the percentage over the whole machine is nothing > compared with the Sparc situation. What does cost megabucks in the PC world > is a really good motherboard with better cache, etc. Given that memory bandwidth > is critical in a 200MHz computer coupled to 16MHz RAM you need something like > lots of cache and/or SDRAM (etc) to retain speed in large real-world jobs as > opposed to benchmark tests. The UltraSPARC can take more cache than the PPro, > but it is one-way (as far as I recall), compared with PPros's two-way L2 cache > and even better 4-way cache on SuperSparcs (SuperSparcs were better than > hyperSPARCs and even sometimes UltraSPARCs if you run large progarms (e.g. > large matrices). Floating point performance went up tremendously with both the > UltraSPARC and the PPro (compared with their respective predecessors), but both > are unimpressive compared with what has been available on IBM, SGI, HP and DEC > systems of a few years. In fact the PowerPC 604e and soon the 704 are > much much faster (yet in the PPro price range), while the PowerIIsc (a bit more > expensive then a medium-sized Ultra) leaves everything else for dead. Assuming > we're talking about speed at certain types of CPU-intensive (especially > floating point) applications. > Dont forget about GIGAPLANE, the 1.2 to 2.4GB/Sec (thats GIGA-BYTES, not GIGA-BITS!). The 660MB/Sec. UPA Graphics bus (kicks the hell out of 132MB/sec. pci 64 and 130mb/sec 64-bit SBUS). 288bit Memory 512bit memory path to cpu (on Ultra x000 and Ultra 2, the Ultra 1 256) with 64bit ECC 3D-RAM for the Creator board (combines best features of all other video memory know to man) 576bit crossbar switch on ultra 2 (compared to non on all pcs and most alphas) for the ultra 2 and enterprise x000 the multiprocessing is pipelined (like the crays snice the cray 2) 1TB external disk space max. on an ultra 2200(2x200mhz) there is a max. of 2940 (or 2740) users. it can handle 1750+ time sharing users on a 512mb RAM system. (see www.sun.com for details) its features like the above, which swill always seperate WORKSTATIONS from PCS. Raw Mhz or CPU power means nothing in CAD/CAM is floating point math sucks, and your bus is cap. of only transfering 80MB/sec. with Sun hardware, if the software dosent catch you, the hardware will. I am a proud Sun supporter, I have never gone wrong. But PC's running BSDI are great, just the hardware limits the capabilities. I would love the day when BSDI works on an alpha or sparc or mips or whatever, as it does on the PC now. pat