*BSD News Article 87703


Return to BSD News archive

Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!super.zippo.com!zdc!szdc!szdc-e!news
From: "John S. Dyson" <dyson@indy.celebration.net>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux vs whatever
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:33:33 -0800
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <32EE9A49.70E9@indy.celebration.net>
References: <32DFFEAB.7704@usa.net> <5c155c$p6u@raven.eva.net>
		<5c19pg$rf6@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <5c39sk$ddl@troma.rv.tis.com>
		<5c8jlm$50u@cynic.portal.ca> <m23evrulla.fsf@desk.crynwr.com>
		<32EA25AB.41C67EA6@freebsd.org> <5qC7y0gTzDLB091yn@ibm.net>
		<32ECB442.41C67EA6@freebsd.org> <32ED1866.34F02393@indiana.edu>
		<32ED4897.193@indy.celebration.net> <877mkxslwx.fsf@localhost.xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: dyson@indy.celebration.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I)
Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.misc:154988 comp.os.linux.networking:66552 comp.os.linux.setup:94485 comp.unix.bsd.misc:2109 comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy:51311 comp.os.os2.advocacy:264233

Peter Mutsaers wrote:
> 
> >> On Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:32:10 -0800, "John S. Dyson"
> >> <dyson@indy.celebration.net> said:
> 
>     JSD> When improvements are made to or technology is added to GPLed
>     JSD> software in order to gain some competitive advantage, those
>     JSD> changes become encumbered by the GPLs redistribution
>     JSD> requirements.  It is possible that those changes are a
>     JSD> considerable body of work in themselves.  Even though the
>     JSD> original GPLed work continues to be available in it's
>     JSD> entirety, it is considered to be "hoarding" by many GPL
>     JSD> advocates if the source code of that new, added body of work
>     JSD> would not redistributed.  GPL encumbers the new source code
>     JSD> (or IP) by forcing it's redistribution if the object code is
>     JSD> distributed.
> 
> In theory GPL is bad in commercial circumstances, where distributing
> source code may be a problem.
>
That theory is practice in alot of situations.  At my work, for
example, we generally cannot use GPLed code in distributed product.

> 
> The boycott of GPL means a slowdown of development which seems far
> more damaging to commercial use.
>
It isn't a "hatred" of GPL, but the problem with modification and
upgrading the code for sale.  We encourage that on FreeBSD.

> 
> Also in commercial settings GPL'd code is used quite a lot. I know of
> many commercial packages (such as several expensive real-time kernels,
> OSI stack software, etc. etc.) that use gcc, gdb etc. Also GNU stuff
> is used a lot in commercial environments. I've worked for 4 companies
> and in all of them GNU products (including Linux at 2 sites) were used
> extensively.
>
I don't think that I have argued much against GPLed code in a
development
environment.

> 
> Also commercial products begin to appear for Linux more and more. Not
> much for FreeBSD. Are there any real and important examples of use of
> *BSD stuff in commercial environments or applications that are
> possible because it is not under the GPL?
>
Yes, there are companies that have modified FreeBSD for their work.  Off
the top of my head, a router manufacturer uses FreeBSD and doesn't have
to disclose their derivative works!!!  (Unlike GPL licensed code.)

>
> This eternal anti GPL discussion appears to me to have only
> theoretical value, which is damaging to FreeBSD's progress (take the
> ISDN part as an example, resulting in many that went with Linux in the
> Netherlands because of lack of support for ISDN under FreeBSD).
>
Unfortunately, GPL keeps many many companies for including the code
into their code base.  We will all hear the cases where GPLed code
is used, but not often when a real, commercial product has been
chosen in lieu of GPLed code.

Look at the cases where you can license the use of a "proprietary
OS" that has been modified by you -- but with GPLed code (specifically
Linux), you don't even have a party to get a license from -- too many
people own the code.  With GPL you pay the penalty of having to disclose
your code if it is a derivative work of the GPLed code :-(.  The penalty
of giving away your IP is more expensive (many times) than just buying
a commercial OS or using a BSD licensed OS.

John