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From: hm@hcshh.hcs.de (Hellmuth Michaelis)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: Shared Libraries for 386BSD (long, w/source)
Message-ID: <1602@hcshh.hcs.de>
Date: 28 Nov 92 17:37:17 GMT
References: <lohse.722861707@tech7> <JKH.92Nov27145531@whisker.lotus.ie> <veit.722878428@du9ds3>
Organization: HCS GmbH, Hamburg, Europe
Lines: 145
In <veit.722878428@du9ds3> veit@du9ds3 (Holger Veit) writes:
This got probably a bit longer, but i feel i have to contradict!
> I take this chance to ask all the "unknown hackers" (who might do good work,
> nevertheless): If you have ported or written something, or want to write or
> port something, PLEASE check first whether it has not already been done yet.
Holger, you forget that not everyone here has Internet-access. If more and
more software doesn't get posted here, but is kept "secret" on ftp-servers,
it is no surprise, that the wheel will be reinvented all the time.
You have a very privileged status, in that you have probably unrestricted
internet access. Please, if you have it, don't think everybody has it - if
you read the pccons-driver posted here a few days ago, the author has only
had archive access to c.u.b. !
> The workgroups forming at ref.tfs.com are a good reference of what is
> going on.
Same to say. If there are such workgroups forming, noone without Internet
access will know !
To repeat it: EVERYONE here has Usenet access, but NOT everyone has Internet
access, please keep that in mind !
(btw: cgd's multiport driver didn't show up on the mailserver of the german
backbone, contrary to what bernard said. i got it by mail from a kind soul ..)
> What we do not need is duplicate work [...]
I strongly agree !
> [...] and work which is incompatible to existing things and will invalidate
> existing software.
NO! Nonsense!
When saying this in this generality, you try to suppress progress! If someone
invents really new things, they probably will break everything simply because
they leave known roads !
History shows, that suppressing progress doesn't has even a bit of a chance ....
> This should not cripple your creativity [...]
BUT YOU DO ! You just demotivate potential innovators. Stop that please !
> [...] but coordination is necessary.
Strongly agreed ! I.e. Nate and Terry did a great job! Have they asked prior
to starting "Chris, Nate, Terry, David, Paul, Rich and other valuable persons",
if it's "in line of 386bsd" ?
> I am not against competition, but not on the shoulders of the people who
> mainly want to use 386bsd.
Oh, i am one of those who mainly want to use 386bsd. And i encourage ANYONE
to POST whatever "super-duper program/driver/whatsoever" for 386bsd, and to
put it on my shoulders !
You seem to get something wrong, you seem to think, c.u.b. is the medium of
the "dumb end user", so the wizards (come on, Holger you are one, aren't you ?)
need to seperate themselves from the masses.
This is not true, i encurage every "real end user" to participate here, but
i think, this will be the exception!
- the "real end user" does NOT have any Usenet access at all.
- Usenet is a medium for ANYONE doing research and experimentation.
- And everyone should have FREE access to it and should be FREE to
express his ideas of a "super-duper program/driver/whatsoever" !
- And you should give anyone the right, to give something back to the
community what she/he got from the community, even if it's a simple
one-line shell script.
> 386bsd is in the tradition of Berkeley's BSD, it is a research system.
You say it!
Then do not try to suppress research, experimentation and going new ways !
> Ask one of the known bsd wizards *), whether your "super-duper
> program/driver/whatsoever" is really in the line of 386bsd.
Why ? Do you think i cannot decide alone whether to post my new refrigerator
driver or not, to support further refrigerator research for 386bsd ?
Who shall i ask for every line of code i write/post - if not my common sense ?
Did Lynne or Bill Jolitz waited for getting acknowledge from someone before
they did the unthinkable ?
> [about providing support for a "super-duper program/driver/whatsoever"]
> If you cannot afford this, please do not release this code to the world.
> It will confuse more than being helpful. The above shared lib code might
> be taken as an example.
NO! This is nonsense!
Even then, "unknown hackers", PLEASE POST IT !!!
No progress without dead ends, confusion, discussion, redesign and the
freedom to express whatever one likes to express! By sharing knowledge
with everyone, you get progess! Even if you went into a dead road, share
this knowledge, or someone else will walk into it too in search of the
solution to a problem. THIS is also avoiding duplicate work !!
And, Holger, would you please leave ME the freedom to decide what i want
to post (in conformance with the netiquette and the purpose of the group
to post into) ??
And, Holger, would you please leave ME the freedom to decide what i want
to let my eyes have a look at and let MY cpu the freedom to process what
ever it likes ??
This includes the freedom to choose to install the green, red or yellow
refrigerator device driver, EVEN if the red one might crash MY system and
the yellow one is your favorite one !!
Thank You !
To quote from the "386BSD INSTALLATION NOTES" from 386BSD 0.1:
[quote start]
We hope that the existence and growth of 386BSD will quash
the cynical notion, cultivated over the last decade, that
the individual is irrelevant to progress. That was, and has
always been, nonsense. It is only through the creativity of
unencumbered minds that new ideas will develop and flourish.
[quote end]
> I think this had to be said.
Me too.
This posting was written just by me without any help or acknowledgement
from "Chris, Nate, Terry, David, Paul, Rich and other valuable persons",
for shure, they can speak for themselves if they feel the need to do.
This is strictly my own opinion, i don't claim to speak for anybody else
but me.
hellmuth
--
hellmuth michaelis HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH hamburg, europe
hm@hcshh.hcs.de tel: +49/40/55903-170 fax: +49/40/5591486