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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.wildstar.net!news.ececs.uc.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.clues.com!news.demon.co.uk!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!awfulhak.demon.co.uk!awfulhak.demon.co.uk!awfulhak.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk (Brian Somers) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,misc.consumers Subject: Re: Why to not buy Matrox Millennium Followup-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,misc.consumers Date: 29 Aug 1996 10:48:58 +0100 Organization: Coverform Ltd. Lines: 81 Distribution: world Message-ID: <503p2a$9v@anorak.coverform.lan> References: <4j21ph$crr@slappy.cs.utexas.edu> <slrn50epup.vrk.knaff@choiseul.inrialpes.fr> <502le0$lv8@nuke.csu.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.coverform.lan X-NNTP-Posting-Host: awfulhak.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.development.apps:21188 comp.os.linux.development.system:30694 comp.os.linux.x:39315 comp.os.linux.hardware:48857 comp.os.linux.setup:70964 comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc:1076 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:4741 comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:4491 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:26323 misc.consumers:95526 John Rudd (kzin@arcadia.SJSU.EDU) wrote: : In <502g5o$is7@usenet.pa.dec.com> Bruce Lowe wrote: : [] : []>> Yes, you could buy a commercial server, but the fact remains that when : []>> you buy a piece of hardware, you don't expect to have to shell out $100 : []>> just to use it! : [] : []> Wow, has Linux been around so long that it has altered people's : expectations : []> completely? : I can't remember a time when I didn't feel insulted that after shelling out a : couple hundred dollars for a piece of hardware, the exact same company made : me pay more money to have the software that makes the hardware usable. If : the hardware isn't usable without the software (like, say, the DRIVERS) then : the hardware alone isn't a complete product. And, by the way, I've _never_ : used Linux, so that has nothing to do with it. But that's the point of this whole discussion. : When I bought my first Adaptek 1542c SCSI host adaptor, imagine my suprise : that it didn't come with drivers for DOS/Windows. The only way I could play : games on CD was to use OS/2, which thankfully included the drivers for the : adaptek "for free" (ie. bundled, no seperate charge beyond buying OS/2). [..... : What this situation boiled down to was that Adaptek lured me in to buying : their host adaptor at a given low price without telling me it was an : incomplete product. Your definition of incomplete is not the same as most of the people here. The argument is that Matrox are selling hardware that you *can't* write drivers for - not without an NDA. You're saying that when I buy a piece of hardware, I should receive drivers for windows/dos/os2....., and share the cost of the privilige even though I don't want to use them ? Not likely. : If I hadn't been a multi-OS user (Nextstep and OS/2, : which both have Adaptek drivers), the card would have been totally useless to : me after paying a couple hundred dollars for it. Then they turn around and : say "oh! you want to USE it!? send us another $100", as though it is a : perfectly valid assumption on their part that at the base price all I wanted : to use the card for was a decoration and power sucker. But you could use it - what if you only had OS/2 ! You would have received a working functional piece of hardware - same as if you used FreeBSD, Linux or whatever. Just because a piece of junk like DOS couldn't recognise it, doesn't mean that Adaptec aren't selling you a functional piece of hardware. : I wouldn't have been : upset if even up front they told me "you need the software package, at extra : charge, to use this under Windows", because at least then I would have : budgeted that extra money UP FRONT (and considered it to be part of the cost : of the product). But this situation smells of cliche's like "sucker punch" : or "hooked and reeled in".. Ah, but the didn't tell you that you didn't need the additional software (I suspect). Why should they say "this doesn't work under X without Y" ? What's so bloody special about windows ? What if Adaptec's thoughts were "Why would anyone bother buying SCSI when they use an OS that waits for the DMA to happen" ? : if it weren't for the fact that Adaptek is a : defacto standard, it'd make me leery of buying any of their hardware ever : again. [.....] 'nuff said. Your hardware was functional and I suspect you got exactly what was advertised. With Adaptec, you can either buy the "kit" or the "bare card". The kit comes with all the crap that I'd never want - the stuff that you think I should pay for. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you could download ASPI4DOS.SYS and ASPICD.SYS (or whatever the drivers are these days) for free from Adaptec's internet site. -- Brian <brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....