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#! rnews 3695 bsd Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.ysu.edu!odin.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!avondale.demon.co.uk!avondale.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: jfhall@avondale.demon.co.uk (John F Hall) Newsgroups: demon.ip.support,demon.tech.unix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: Batch FTP and Web Pages Date: 2 Jul 1996 13:46:38 +0100 Organization: - Lines: 61 Message-ID: <4rb5ne$5eq@avondale.demon.co.uk> References: <31D4AA3A.BC0@www.play-hookey.com> <836073421snz@dsl.co.uk> <31D87436.7C7F@www.play-hookey.com> <836289820snz@mynx.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: avondale.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: avondale.demon.co.uk In article <836289820snz@mynx.demon.co.uk>, <david@mynx.demon.co.uk> wrote: >Probably right, except here in Hull we do have flat rate local calls and >always have had - unfortunately Demon no longer offer truly local calls >in this area (which means we're stuck with the timed local calls >everyone else has inflicted on them). >The local phone company had no problems with this. >Demon had few problems with it, other than people were getting the >equivalent of expenisive leased lines. >Quite a lot of Demon customers in this group seemed to have quite a big >problem with the fact that others were getting something cheaper than them... >The problem was the National Carrier, Energis, who carried the traffic from >the local number to Demon - they seemed unable to deal with it (at least at >whatever rates they have negotiated with Demon to carry national calls at >local rates). If you're going to give a potted history of that incident you ought to get it right. :-) There were a limited number of out of area lines in Hull that connected to the PoP in Leeds (or maybe Bradford). Initially the complaints came from the Hull users who were unable to connect reliably as the Hull number was perpetually busy - they ended up having to dial into Leeds or London. Eventually the plug was pulled by Yorkshire Telecoms who provided the link between Hull and Leeds as their equipment was swamped by all the failed calls that were getting the busy tones. >Cable companies now in competition for telecomms business are offering >high speed, low cost connections in some - before too long most - of the >country. Many of them include unmetered off peak calls to other customers *except* for calls to ISPs. >Various people (not sure if these included Demon staff) said during various >discussions of the problems with connection from Hull, that the only way >Demon could cope with the longer connect times resulting from flat rate >calls would be by introducing on-line usage charges. If the people in Hull had access to *all* the Demon modems through the current vPoP scheme they would swamp it. Demon are reasonably certain based on the previous experience that the *rest* of the Demon users would be complaining loudly. >How do US ISPs deal with this? I believe the larger ones have a limit on hours per month. They charge an hourly rate when that is exceeded. That requires of course accounting for all use - Demon do not currently do that. Some smaller ones have just a small number of modems serving a single local area. They are self-limiting, and if they get too popular get like Demon in Hull. >I think Demon would have some major problems having 50 000+ users on line >24 hours a day! Even 6 hours per day - particularly if everyone wanted the same 6 hours in the evening. -- John F Hall jfhall@avondale.demon.co.uk CompuServe: 100016,1210