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From: terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C)
Subject: Re: Finding untranslated params for IDE drives (w/ pgm)
Message-ID: <1992Oct30.035502.21209@fcom.cc.utah.edu>
Sender: news@fcom.cc.utah.edu
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
References: <1992Oct27.184246.24246@fcom.cc.utah.edu> <1992Oct28.023906.15320@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 92 03:55:02 GMT
Lines: 132
In article <1992Oct28.023906.15320@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
|> A Wizard of Earth C (terry@cs.weber.edu) wrote:
|> : >
|> : >The problems with translation come from BSD trying to run the disks in
|> : >untranslated mode. None of the other PC unixen try to do this and they
|> : >have no problems with DOS partitions.
|> :
|> : This is ridiculous! "Transparent" means I can't tell that it's there; if
|> : I can "turn it off" it's not "transparent" -- it's damn well opaque! Only
|>
|> How do you turn it off? You can't turn it off, just like ESDI or even SCSI.
|> Remember that IDE can be ESDI and SCSI inside the hard-disk.
I refer you to wdboot. SCO doesn't change the IDE drives from the translation
DOS sees. You can't "turn off" zone recording -- if there is more than one
possible translation mode which is software selectable, then the translation
isn't "transparent" to the software -- at the very least, the software doing
the selection can see the difference. So can ide_conf.exe. The problem is
386BSD trying to use it in a mode other than the cold-boot default mode.
|> You cannot turn off translation in IDE disks.
I don't care if you call it "turning it off" or "painting it blue". During
boot of 386BSD, the translation seen by software making calls to the disk
controller changes. This is bad. This is wrong. This should not be done.
This must stop. This is my option 4.
There are significant speed advantages to running in a "native" geometry; it
doesn't matter if you call this "translation off mode" or "yet another
translation mode". If you can, you should run untranslated, unless you don't
care about speed (in which case, I'll trade you a 386/16 for every 486/50 you
want to get rid of; I'll even pay postage). The methods we can use to
accomplish this are my options 1, 2, and 3, and are dependent on how the
translations *other* than the zone recording are implemented (through
software/hardware, closest match from BIOS type 47/closest match for a table
entry/exact mach for a table entry/exact mach of translation paramters/drive
type zero).
|> In ALL new drives, you do not lose any space at all. Only if you use
|> old drives, may be. I doubt it.
Free old drives are better than new ones you are charged for, just like free
food tastes better. 8-).
|> Why don't you change your ide controller and bios?
Because that would only solve the problem for me and wouldn't get people to
stop posting about IDE drives; the only way to do that is to make them always
"just work".
|> Terry, please note that the endless boot happened to my drives also, but
|> I solved it by putting a new bootblock, either using disklabel -w -r or
|> preferable use os-bs?
|>
|> Why don't you try this first?
As an interim soloution for people that it doesn't "just work" for, this is
an excellent suggestion. I guess it would solve perhaps 30% of the problems
with IDE that are posted to this group. It would also require reinstallation
of the DOS partition after translation is "turned off" (set to the ide_conf
suggested parameters).
|> I suspect, your 386bsd partition occupy the beginneing cylinders. You
|> intend to install DOS at higer cylinder numbers. This causes the most
|> problem, because wdboot, gets its subsequent sectors from sectors 2-15.
|> The very first sector, sector 1, is where the bootblk is, where it is used
|> to switch to "PROTECTED MODE". Without this 1st sector "wdboot", it will
|> never go to protected mode. However when you install os-bs, you will
|> overide this bootblk. You need to get it from somewhere else. Installl
|> in 386bsd, actually copies wdboot to a higher partition, and let os-bs
|> bootstrap it.
|>
|> If you fail to install "wdboot" it to higher cyclinders, you will never be
|> able to boot 386bsd.
|>
|> disklabel(by default) will not install it to rwd0a, only rwd0d.
|> I verified this.
|>
|> You install it using disklabel -w -r wd0a
|> The new disklabel allows you to do this, unlike the old one.
|>
|> Alternatively you can use dd or even cat.
I think this still requires that ide_conf.exe be run and translation turned
off (or whatever you want to call what we do as a result of setting drive
type 47). This won't work with older controllers or BIOS. Yes, it would be
nice if everyone upgraded, but telling them to do so will only alienate them,
not get them to upgrade. In most peoples mind, 386BSD is what you run on
unused hardware, not something you buy a machine for.
|> :
|> : Have we hashed over this thing enough?
|> :
|> Why don't we settle on the installation techniques suggested by me
|> and some others, since we have installed DOS and 386bsd in all the recent
|> IDE hard-disks?
|>
|> Your problem is exceptional, as a result of the desire to install
|> DOS at higher cyclinder numbers.
|>
|> Can you settle on ide_conf, os-bs, and the installation instructions that
|> had been posted? At least for the time being.
|> At least the beginners will have something for them in the FAQ.
I certainly think what has been discussed so far is FAQ'able; however, an
installation guide and installation utilities kit would probably be a better
idea. I still vote for doing *all* the work in the boot and installation
code for 386BSD. This is easier for novice users. The sheer volume of new
FAQ'able information has kept me from releasing an updated FAQ. It's hard to
decide what a feature set is and where a cut should be made; I have to make
updates pretty much as the result of a weekend sit-down where I go through
*everything* and cut it down.
The idea of a user being able to install without *needing* an installation
guide is highly attractive to me; this requires an integrated soloution
instead of a set of workarounds, even if they are made available in a
centralized location in a relatively easy to use form.
Terry Lambert
terry@icarus.weber.edu
terry_lambert@novell.com
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
--
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