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From: Bryan Seigneur <freds@gramercy.ios.com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Historic Opportunity facing Free Unix (was Re: The Lai/Baker paper, benchmarks, and the world of free UNIX)
Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 04:17:21 -0400
Organization: SONETECH, Inc.
Lines: 118
Message-ID: <3189C111.34823E07@gramercy.ios.com>
References: <4ki055$60l@Radon.Stanford.EDU> <4lmu6m$3cp@complete.org> <4m61bv$12q6@news.missouri.edu> <318851BF.4E8724A7@gramercy.ios.com> <4mb38b$680@solaria.cc.gatech.edu>
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Byron A Jeff wrote:
> In article <318851BF.4E8724A7@gramercy.ios.com>,
> Bryan Seigneur <freds@gramercy.ios.com> wrote:
> >I posit that this whole thing is silly because the Word format changes
> >every two days anyway and is proprietary. I don't see any free WProc
> >project incorporating the ability to read and write the latest Word
> >files. Free projects never support proprietary formats, it doesn't
> >happen, it shouldn't. Concentrating on the issue would suck valuable
> >resources. Something that could read and write to all the free
> >formats would be more useful than something whose features are
> >limited because the hacking-team is busy trying to figure out
> >MS's latest changes to the Word format.
>
> Any free Wordprocess that doesn't can't help Free Unixes make a move in
> the desktop market.
That's a very assuming statement.
I don't think such a feature is vital.
Linux has gotten to where it is today, and it has NEVER, EVER, had to use
any standards that are not completely free. No free project that I know
of has done anything like that. This is so not because of any cultural
reason, but because it is the path of least resistance not to use any
proprietary standards. If you feel like working on such a project, fine,
but, again, Linux has gotten pretty far without doing any such
thing.
> I believe I've wrrten three times before that the intent isn't that chase
> Microsoft's tail. The intent is to support the existing mountain of documents.
> Do Word 6. And word 6 only. do it before microsoft comes out with a
> competeing format.
> Infact don't even write word 6 documents. Write RTF or whatever other format
> you want. But you have to read Word 6 docs.
> If you don't you're not competing. That's the only reasonable criteria.
>
> >If one needs to access old docs, one should textify or rtf-ify or
> >html-ify or WP6-ify the docs from within Word. We're just slaves
> >to MS if we continue to promote their piece of crap format as a
> >standard. I just want a stinking WYSIWYG WProc.
>
> Pray tell: How do you do that conversion without booting up Windows? To use
> word 6 to do the conversion is self defeating. I don't have Windows nor
> Word 6 but I get quite a few Word 6 attachments. What do I do then?
I know it might seem rude, but ask for a resend in a format you can use.
cIt's rude of the sender to send you a document you might be unable
to read unless you spend a nice amount of money. I'm sure no one will
think twice if you ask for a resend. OR, Ask MS for a Word reader
(like the one they have for Win) under Linux (ROTFL).
> BTW I'll accept critiques on the following Linux WP
>
> * EZ
> * WordPerfect 6 for SCO
> * WordPerfect 6 for Linux (from Caldera)
> * Cicero
> * LyX
>
> Have you tried any of them? They do WP jobs quite nicely IMHO.
I must confess my Linux box doesn't even have a printer. But it shall
shortly.
> But to anyone that is in a microsoft environment they are worse that useless
> because the hundreds and thouseand of docs they already have cannot be
> used on any of them. And if they have to use word to convert them, then why
> should they bother to switch to a Free Unix (which is the real objective).
For all the reasons someone would switch to a free Unix even if it weren't
able to convert Word6 docs.
> >Standard doc formats are a GOOD thing. Part of the lure of free
> >software is to get away from all these formats that are hostile to
> >one another and that change every ten seconds. There is no reason
> >for MS to continually change their format continually except to !@#$
> >the competition (and the customer), if we support MS, we will
> >continue to be !@#$ed, as we are not only the customer, but the
> >also competition.
>
> I agree that standard doc formats are a good thing. I also know that
> there are several billion existing documents in the old crappy format.
^^^^^^^ :^O
> Now I don't believe that we should perpetuate the next crappy format but
> we have to deal with the legacy that's already in the current crappy format.
>
> >My point is that to read and write the latest Word docs is going to be
> >a ROYAL PITA, because it's exactly what MS doesn't want us to be able
> >to do. It's masochistic! It would be a PITA, and then you would
> >have to do it all over again in 6 months when MS released the next
> >version! It's a job for a commercial endeavour, not a free hacking
> >project. We're trying to fun, too, after all! That's why it's not
> >gonna happen. It's masochistic and it runs contrary to free
> >software. So let's get on, we need another angle.
>
> Not the latests. Just Word 6. That's all. Come up with a standard
> WP format, a converter for Word 6 into that format, and a WP that runs
> both on free Unix and Microsoft platforms. Then promote the hell out of it
> before there are a billion more document in the next crappy format.
> Think about it.
Okay, but you may have to do it yourself. Such thing is unheard of
in free Unix land. I often say, as much as Linux is an implementation
of Unix, then Unix is a completely free standard. Given history, I
don't see it happening.
Supposing we get Word6 legibility. Some people are going to stay with
the Word game, and generate megs of docs with Word 7 or 8 or whatever.
What do we do then? Anyway, if WP6 has a Word6 converter, this
conversation is moot.
> BAJ
> --
> Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
> Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel - And Using Linux!
> Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu
Bryan
--
Y W8 4MS?
LNX4FREE!