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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.rmit.EDU.AU!news.unimelb.EDU.AU!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!paladin.american.edu!news.jhu.edu!aplcenmp!netnews.jhuapl.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!mv!news.missouri.edu!vortex.cc.missouri.edu!rhys From: rhys@vortex.cc.missouri.edu (Justin "Rhys Thuryn" McNutt) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy Subject: Re: Historic Opportunity facing Free Unix (was Re: The Lai/Baker paper, benchmarks, and the world of free UNIX) Followup-To: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy Date: 17 Apr 1996 00:14:10 GMT Organization: University of Missouri - Columbia Lines: 106 Message-ID: <4l1d4i$12qu@news.missouri.edu> References: <NELSON.96Apr15010553@ns.crynwr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vortex.cc.missouri.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.development.system:21654 comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc:658 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:3283 comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:3116 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:17581 comp.os.linux.advocacy:46072 Russell Nelson (nelson@ns.crynwr.com) wrote: : From: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) : Date: 12 Apr 1996 18:05:08 -0700 : In article <NELSON.96Apr12112334@ns.crynwr.com> nelson@ns.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes: : As bad as it is, and you've already somewhat disqualified yourself : from really judging it anyway since you're clearly a UNIX power user : and NOT an average Joe. : I don't think you understand the problem here, Jordan. The problem is : not "which is easier to use?". This question is technically : answerable, however, the answer is meaningless. The problem is that : Microsoft has complete mindshare. People don't evaluate which : operating system is better than another. People just go buy a : computer, and they use whatever operating system comes with it. : If they could buy a computer with Linux and (a fully functional) Wine : installed, they would use it with no hesitation. : In order to create a market for Linux, we need to say, and say again, : that Linux is THE ONLY RELIABLE 32-bit desktop operating system. The : only other choices simply are not up to the task. This is not about : stating what is, but about what should be. : THIS IS HOW MICROSOFT MARKETS ITS PRODUCTS. Why do you think there : was sooooo much hype about win95? It's because there HAD to have : been, otherwise people might start evaluating operating systems. : Now, given that we have to use the same weapon to win the war, where : do we start? Do we try to introduce the idea that there are multiple : free 32-bit operating systems? No. This is a bad marketing idea. : Bad, bad, bad. It confuses people. There is room for only one free : 32-bit operating system. Which is it to be, Linux or *BSD*? Linux : already has a big head start, given that there have been Linux : conferences and a Linux magazine, and multiple companies distributing : competitive versions of Linux (but it's always Linux). You could : throw away the head start of Linux, but that would be foolish. Much : better to line up everyone behind Linux, and march to Seattle. : This might sound like bullshit to you, but that's okay, because it's : marketing. Technoids traditionally do not understand marketing, or : the value of it. : Nope. There is only one Unix for the desktop: Linux. : Oh please, give me a break. Repeat after me: There is NO UNIX for the : desktop... : Nope. You've got it exactly backwards. There is only one modern, : reliable, supported, supportable 32-bit operating system for the : desktop: Linux. We need to shout this from the rooftops. This is not : blind advocacy, this is a CRUCIAL step to overcoming the Microsoft : hegemony. : Trust me, I keep a *very* close eye on what Linux is doing, being : responsible as I am for FreeBSD's installation, and the holy grail : Linux most definitely ain't. Yes, there are some very nice features : in RedHat and Slackware and I'll probably be adopting more than a few : of their installation features into FreeBSD, but that's like saying : that we've all got this rutted, single lane dirt road and I've noticed : that RedHat just put down some gravel and am thinking of doing the : same thing for FreeBSD's stretch of it. Meanway, the 8 lane paved : superhighway of Windows runs next door with bumper-to-bumper traffic : while we wave at the occasional passing car moving cautiously at 30Mph : to avoid the potholes as it moves down our road. : See? Again and again you address technical issues. Technical issues, : in general, don't matter. : But you didn't answer my question: what is wrong with Linux that you : cannot fix? Russ, Amen, amen, and amen! I've been telling everybody left and right that Linux is the only decent operating system around (for the PC). I've been showing them reviews of Caldera, I've implemented Linux (crippled, but useful) in our computer labs, I use it in my office, etc. etc. People around here are starting to pay attention. People told *me* there was going to be a PowerMac port of Linux. People told *me* about Linux becoming POSIX compliant. People are starting to pay attention. They've told me: "If Linux had a nice little GUI and MS Word/Excel, we'd throw Windows in the trash and use it." That's a pretty strong statement from university employees, who are usually so entrenched in what they've been using for years that they don't ever want to change. So in that sense, even the ease of setup isn't a problem. I can set up all the machines, and just teach people how to use them. If WINE/whatever ever starts working, all the better. But people need to know about Linux and take it seriously. O'Reilly & Associates take Linux seriously. They publish Linux books. So does Que. As a matter of fact, there are a number of publishers who put out Linux books. So why don't people take it seriously? Nobody knows about it. That can change. -------- If you can lead it to water and force it to drink, it isn't a horse. Got a Linux problem? Or can you help others solve them? Visit the Linux Common Problems page at http://vortex.cc.missouri.edu/~rhys/linux.html rhys@vortex.cc.missouri.edu