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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!inferno.mpx.com.au!goliath.apana.org.au!news.syd.connect.com.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!munnari.OZ.AU!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.biddeford.com!not-for-mail From: swanton@river.biddeford.com (george p swanton) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy Subject: Re: Historic Opportunity facing Free Unix (was Re: The Lai/Baker paper, benchmarks, and the world of free UNIX) Date: 19 Apr 1996 10:59:43 -0400 Organization: Biddeford Internet Corp. Lines: 104 Message-ID: <4l89ov$g5i@river.biddeford.com> References: <NELSON.96Apr15010553@ns.crynwr.com> <yfgbuktfn1w.fsf@time.cdrom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: river.biddeford.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.development.system:21573 comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc:635 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:3255 comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:3082 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:17502 comp.os.linux.advocacy:45917 In article <yfgbuktfn1w.fsf@time.cdrom.com>, Jordan K. Hubbard <jkh@time.cdrom.com> wrote: >In article <NELSON.96Apr15010553@ns.crynwr.com> nelson@ns.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes: > > I don't think you understand the problem here, Jordan. The problem is > not "which is easier to use?". [...] > >I don't think there there's any single problem to point to [...] >UNIX is not as easy to use, fact. People (non-computer science people) dont 'use' operating systems; they use applications and a great many of them have trouble with those. Operating systems dont 'sell', applications do. > If they could buy a computer with Linux and (a fully functional) Wine > installed, they would use it with no hesitation. > >That's a pretty sweeping statement, and even so predicated on one very >large "if" at the beginning. Sweeping and optimistic. Win95 is written by the people who wrote windows and _it_ doesn't exactly do an impressive job of running a good many windows applications. People hesitate to buy Win95 (with good reason), you expect people to jump in mass at Linux/Wine with 'no hesitation'? Wont happen. Linux/*BSD/Wine/etc are all commendable and valuable projects but they are not what Betty and Bob Consumer want or need. You may be able to provide them with a superior operating system and maybe even applications but they also need to have their hand held; they need support. I can see someone chiming in about News/IRC/other_internet_forum on this, this is not support, at least not in the sense most people want. I am fine posting a request for help and then looking for a reply (and appreciate it when (if) it comes), but that's not mainstream. People want to call a support number, preferably toll-free, and say "It's broke, fix it." Thats what they're paying for. There are groups working on providing support for 'free' software but they're just getting started. 'Man-on-the-street' needs to know who they are and how they can help before 'free' software is a mainstream alternative to Megasoft/Windoze. > In order to create a market for Linux, we need to say, and say again, > that Linux is THE ONLY RELIABLE 32-bit desktop operating system. The > only other choices simply are not up to the task. This is not about > stating what is, but about what should be. > >Sorry, but that's just totally inane. And just plain wrong. Do you propose every real-time/control/transaction- processing/etc installation in the world replace their systems with Intel/Linux platforms? Do you suppose it to be possible? Presuming Linux is indeed 'reliable' (according to undefined criteria), there are considerations beyond the OS, like applications and support. Can I get an Oracle parralel server on SMP hardware for Linux? Can I get an SQL based graphical query/reporting/DBA suite? Graphical development environment? > Now, given that we have to use the same weapon to win the war, where > do we start? I suppose by 'win' you mean take over the world ala Microsoft by deposing the malevolent giant. Your optimism is exceeded only by your naivety (sp). Microsoft has millions of people sold that they _need_ the latest greatest MSwhatitz before it even exists and has them hanging on waiting for the next release even when the first barely works. How? Advertising,lawyers, and millions of dollars. Linux/*BSD/etc have very little of the above. >Who says we do? Who says it would even *work* for us? >[...] >What works for one group of >people in one situation may be wholly inappropriate for another. Free software has its place, its just not the same place as Megasoft software. This might be considered a good thing. > There is room for only one free > 32-bit operating system. >I don't accept this premise at all... Nor do I. A little friendly competition goes a long way to improving the 'product'. >Vive la difference! Exactly. >Just because I happen to admire a set >of silken undergarnments on a member of the opposite sex by no means >implies that I have any desire to wear such things myself (though >maybe that will change once I'm older and kinkier - I'll leave my >options open :-). Just be sure to keeps your doors closed and your shades drawn, we _don't_ wanna know about it! >- Jordan Hubbard > President, FreeBSD Project gps