Return to BSD News archive
Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.mira.net.au!news.vbc.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!reason.cdrom.com!usenet From: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy Subject: Re: Historic Opportunity facing Free Unix (was Re: The Lai/Baker paper, benchmarks, and the world of free UNIX) Date: 12 Apr 1996 18:05:08 -0700 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Lines: 89 Sender: jkh@time.cdrom.com Message-ID: <yfgk9zl3pdn.fsf@time.cdrom.com> References: <4ki055$60l@Radon.Stanford.EDU> <jdd.829261293@cdf.toronto.edu> <yfglok14n5r.fsf@time.cdrom.com> <NELSON.96Apr12112334@ns.crynwr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: time.cdrom.com In-reply-to: nelson@ns.crynwr.com's message of 12 Apr 1996 15:23:34 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.1 Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.development.system:21419 comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc:603 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:3215 comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:3028 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:17388 comp.os.linux.advocacy:45584 In article <NELSON.96Apr12112334@ns.crynwr.com> nelson@ns.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes: > The fact is that it's already too late for UNIX on the desktop. Nope. If you say that, then you clearly have not tried to administer a Windows95 machine. It's just hell. I know someone who spent a I *have* tried this, and I agree it's hell. But so what? Faced with two hells in either direction, one of which is festooned with bright lights and scantily clad demon-babes beconning with bright smiles and gleaming teeth, and the other one being simply a dark and gloomy cave with flames flickering dimly from the back, which direction do you think the user is going to walk in? I'll give you 10 minutes to answer that question, and no fair looking at your neighbor's paper.. :-) As bad as it is, and you've already somewhat disqualified yourself from really judging it anyway since you're clearly a UNIX power user and NOT an average Joe. Windows still holds your hand in far more ways than UNIX does, and while there might be 5,000 really important way still missing, I would never even dream of trying to state that Joe (or Jane) User would have an easier time doing word processing or spreadsheets (e.g. "normal business user tasks") with an HP-VUE desktop than they would with Windows95. If you'd like to stage a few bets, I'll be more than happy to relieve you of your surplus cash. Nope. There is only one Unix for the desktop: Linux. Oh please, give me a break. Repeat after me: There is NO UNIX for the desktop, and if you think it's Linux then I'd really like some of the drugs you're taking since they clearly give one a very pleasant, rosy outlook on life. I've installed Slackware 3.0 and I've installed RedHat 2.1 and I'd have even installed Linux-FT had it managed to do anything more than wedge solid at the boot-off-the-floppy stage on the very same machine I use for all my testing (and yes, I read the little installation guide cover to cover and mailed support@lasermoon.co.uk - no clues or support have been forthcoming). Trust me, I keep a *very* close eye on what Linux is doing, being responsible as I am for FreeBSD's installation, and the holy grail Linux most definitely ain't. Yes, there are some very nice features in RedHat and Slackware and I'll probably be adopting more than a few of their installation features into FreeBSD, but that's like saying that we've all got this rutted, single lane dirt road and I've noticed that RedHat just put down some gravel and am thinking of doing the same thing for FreeBSD's stretch of it. Meanway, the 8 lane paved superhighway of Windows runs next door with bumper-to-bumper traffic while we wave at the occasional passing car moving cautiously at 30Mph to avoid the potholes as it moves down our road. You've let evangelism, as reasonably conceived as it might be, sadly blind you to reality, my friend. Nope. You haven't seen what happens when Windows 3.1/95 crashes and burns. There is only one thing to do: reinstall and hope that your files don't get mangled. Yes, yes, yes, we can sit here all day long and cite specific problems and horror stories with Windows95. We shouldn't even be comparing Win95 with UNIX anyway, given that UNIX is an Operating System and Win95 is an *Operating Environment*. Let's compare it with NT if you want to do a true apples-and-oranges (as opposed to apples-and-bricks) comparison, but we still won't get anywhere by citing the horror stories and hoping that people will be scared away. This isn't about "windows killed my dog and raped my wife", this is about "what the heck is it about Windows that's caused the damn thing to take over the world and when are we finally going to pull our heads out of the sand and stop chanting nahnahnahnahnahnah-I can't hear you!-nahnahnahnahnah! like a bunch of kids arguing at recess?" You can like it or not, but I have a scarey fact for you: Windows has taken over the world. Yup! Just look outside. It's everywhere. There are dedicated Windows magazines on the bookshelves, classes at your local YMCA, 50 foot pictures of President Gates staring benevolently at you from every corner. Whoops, OK, I'm skipping ahead in time a little, but I think you get the picture. You can debate all this from a standpoint of denial and impassioned stories of how Windows95 isn't *your* favorite operating system for ten million different reasons, but it still won't go one iota towards explaining why UNIX has fallen so far behind, despite a decade of such great promise, nor will it assist us in deciding what we have to do in order to try and improve the situation. Jordan -- - Jordan Hubbard President, FreeBSD Project