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From: stephenk@netcom.com (Stephen Knilans)
Subject: Re: Why to not buy Matrox Millennium
Message-ID: <stephenkDp7nHo.369@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
References: <4jn4qp$6p@darkstar.my.lan> <stephenkDp5xr1.69v@netcom.com> <4joi3n$bvb@news.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 01:15:24 GMT
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Sender: stephenk@netcom.netcom.com
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In article <4joi3n$bvb@news.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE> Thomas.Weihrich@Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE (Thomas Weihrich) writes:
>stephenk@netcom.com (Stephen Knilans) writes:
>
>
>>AH, the LIBERAL way of thinking! NOW, let's add a little REALITY, shall we?
>>Let's assume that many of those linux users are high end users(likely, given
>>the nature of the beast), and that they have friends/acquaintances/business
>>associates/bosses/people under them. ALL the above groups may decide NOT to
>>buy matrox! Also assume that they may spread the word through some means.
>>Let's take an off the wall example, shall we? maybe the INTERNET, and spread
>>the word about MATROXes bad support. I GUARANTEE, that if linux users were 10%
>>of the market, that at LEAST 50% of the market will hear of it! *I*, for
>>example, bought no such card, yet heard of it HERE!!! Even if I DIDN'T use
>>LINUX, I wouldn't touch their card!
>
>You still don't get it ...
>
>Linux is by no means a commercially usable product. It has too many
>flaws to be of good use for businesses let alone ISPs.
Name ****ONE****! So far, I haven't heard ONE legitimate reason! BTW I have heard
of at least THREE ISPs that use LINUX, and some BIG companies have decided to
support LINUX! LINUX supports more, is more flexible, and faster in areas, etc...
than SCO!!!!!!!!! I use SCO at work, and Linux at home!
>It is meant for
>the home unix beginner who wants to learn how to hack. This is btw
>reflected in the quality of the code (especially the kernel code).
Have you seen some "professional " code? BTW, it IS a high end product.
Most consumers will stick with DOS or windows!
>Linux reflects an attitude though:" I can get something that appears to
>be working for free. So why should I fork out even a dime for something
>that works more stable, faster, is easier to install, etc ? "
I installed SCO AND LINUX! BOTH were just as easy to install, and Linux is BETTER!
>People are
>so eager to spend most of their money for faster hardware - not because
>they really need it, but mostly because they need to pamper their ego
>and impress their friends. Get the social acknowledgement they could not
>get otherwise. Sad, but true in too many cases.
The fastest system I had was a 386DX/40 (w 8MB BTW), up until last december.
My father got me a pentium 75Mhz, for Christmas, and I later had to buy
another to run windows! In truth, I had to by an EIDE controller, and get more
resources, and I figured the new MB was the cheapest way to go.
I only run windows because some customers use it, and many ask me question, etc...
Personally, I HATE it!
My point is that I have been slow to upgrade, and have a real reason. If I
wanted to brag, I would get a FAST alpha with a HUGE cache.
>The answer to this ios very easy though. In a certain environment
>the cost of the operating system (or the hardware) don't matter. If I
>have to spend even 2 hours to track down a Linux problem (or an XFree
>problem) I lose money.
We had a problem with running some software under SCO, and SCO would NOT support
it! I have NEVER gotten a decent answer out of them! We may have lost two
contracts(an initial loss of over $90,000 YEAP, NINETY THOUSAND DOLLARS) because
of it!
Had I had the same problem in Linux, I could support it MYSELF! Of course, that
software ran FINE under LINUX!
>Lots of. More than a working product that is
>easier to install and configure would ever cost me.
>If the commercial product does not work as advertised I can get the
>manufacturer to fix it. And fix it fast.
Examples of product support problems:
SCO
How do you properly engage H/W flow control? It isn't working!
Various questions regarding DOS, etc...
NONE were answered "fast", and those that WERE answered were answered to
late or improperly.
IBM
How do you set 132 column mode on a particular card they advertised to
have such a hardware mode? After about 12 calls, I caught a statement
and got him to admit that it was done through graphics software drivers
that weren't even available.
MAXTOR
How fast is this drive(given the serial number and model). They gave me the
i WRONG info! They claimed intel and/or award were to blame. They couldn't
even give me the specs on the drive THEY made!
CYRIX
How much current does your 6x86 use? They said "WHAT's current"? One told
me it was "classified"!
MICROFOCUS
Our programs (after upgrading to 3.2 COBOL) no longer read the data correctly.
WHY? Later, My boss found it was the sort. We asked WHY? Later ***I***
went through bugfix/revision lists, and EASILY found the problem! Why
couldn't THEY? I must say, that MICROFOCUS has generally had good support.
VARIOUS VGA CARD MFGS
How do you use 132 column mode? Out of maybe 80-90 calls, only 3-4 got
results, that is 3-4 companies out of over a dozen!
DIAMOND
How do I get your stealth pro card to work even under WINDOWS? This took
over an hour, and they gave me the WRONG info! How do I get it to work
under Linux, etc... That, is LEGEND!
HP
How do I get your new HP1200C to print color? I was told I should wait
several weeks, and pay $99 for a book! A book I SHOULD have gotten with the
$1400 printer! Incidently, it took HOURS to find out about this book! Other
INSISTED that I use DRIVERS! I told them that they HAD no drivers for, and
COULDN'T have, for VMS, AIX, SOLARIS, and SCO UNIX, to name a few. Further,
they had no info on using the drivers. They have some stupid idea that
EVERYONE uses just a wordprocessor and a few programs, outside of windows.
A STUPID idea, but a COMMON one!
And what of MATROX?
Isn't that what THIS thread is about?
AOf course, there ARE many more examples, and some real boners, but I have
forgotten many.
>And do something else during
>the time it takes him to fix problems (i.e. do something productive).
>
>It's the very same thing with Matrox graphics boards and Xaccel.
>Why should I use XFree if there is a commercially supported XServer
>available that is inexpensive (I consider $125 - $150 inexpensive),
>works faster, is easier to install and gets the most out of my hardware
HUH? I installed XFree in a few minutes! It was not POSSIBLE to install it
faster, as 99% of the time was in copying! Xwindows is the STANDARD, and it can CHANGE!
I am on X11R6 now. Why should I pay some flunky to give me what I can get for FREE?
Don't give me the garbage about support! We spent $450 for SCOs support, and really
got NONE! Even IBM couldn't tell me how to use a feature TOUTED in their CURRENT
ads!
>?
>Matrox cards do work with Xaccel. They work exceptionally well; the
>server is very stable and can be installed in a flash. So why should I
>use a product (XFree) that is slower than Xaccel, more time consuming to
>install, etc ? Just to save a couple of $$s ?
Actually, it could be THOUSANDS per platform!
>
>BTW the whole discussion is brain dead. Matrox owns the rights to their
>drivers AND their graphics chips. It is their intellectual property.
But they are telling their customers that they have a right to USE those
chips!
>Ripping them apart just because some hotheads think they own the right
>to reengineer everything they have a right-to-use-license for sounds
>like theft of intellectual property to me.
I have a car I would like to sell you! It is a 1992 VW Jetta RED, and I
will sell it for $1500! Interested?
Here are the terms! I keep the keys, and can continue to drive it. You can
look at it!
THAT is what you are saying MATROX owners should do! OH, you can have the
car, but you DON'T get the keys!
>If Matrox decided to release
>the driver information, fine. If not it's their decision. If you decide
>that you don't want to buy such a product, that's fine. But don't go
>ahead and steal their property, even if you think you may be on the safe
>side.
If I buy a car, I have a RIGHT to the keys! You DON'T buy a car, you buy the
USE! If I bought a matrox card, I expect to have that info that will allow
me to USE it such that it will do what THEY said it would do! Otherwise, I
might as well stick a piece of cardboard in the slot!
>Anyway,
>I'll continue to buy Matrox graphic boards. They are fast, reliable and
>relatively inexpensive. I am using the Xinside server. I am glad it's
>out there and supported: It took Thomas Roell just a couple of seconds
>to figure out good timing values for my monitor (Nokia 102 kHz) and he
>solved my problem in a matter of minutes. I think no further comment is
>necessary.
>
That Jetta is CHEAP at $1500, but gets VERY expensive if you aren't given the
ability to use it! Likewise, a cheap card becomes expensive. And what of the
borland compatibility routines for some UNIX systems? Does XINSIDE support THEM?
I didn't think so!
Steve