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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!garnet.bmr.gov.au!como.dpie.gov.au!news.gan.net.au!act.news.telstra.net!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!smalltown.uoregon.edu!neonlights.uoregon.edu!news.jsums.edu!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news.ac.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!usenet From: Rick Forrister <rickf@glacier.jpl.nasa.gov> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: Why to not buy Matrox Millennium Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 11:35:18 -0800 Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory - Pasadena CA Lines: 119 Message-ID: <31599876.4F2E@glacier.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <4j21ph$crr@slappy.cs.utexas.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: glacier.jpl.nasa.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4m) Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.development.apps:13739 comp.os.linux.development.system:20133 comp.os.linux.x:27781 comp.os.linux.hardware:34554 comp.os.linux.setup:47536 comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc:316 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:2815 comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:2595 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:16129 Many of the posted comments on this issue appear to miss the point here, which is the arrogance and attitude towards the customer reflected in the Matrox reply. Please note that Vladimir was _NOT_ asking for a free ride; and his message to Matrox implied full respest for the possibility that they might wish to continue their existing NDA. In specific, he stated that he wished to find out under what conditions it would be possible to obtain the necessary information, and stated a further preference that it would be good if the resulting effort could be made available in the public domain. An appropriate response would have been for Matrox to state that they were unwilling to release any data at this time without an NDA, and that Mr. Vukicevic should contact such-and-such a department for information about obtaining a NDA. It would not hurt Matrox, nor their financial and/or market considerations to provide the data under an NDA with the agreement that Vladimir would be restricted to providing binaries to other parties. This would have allowed his effort, which could concievably actually help Matrox's public image at no cost to them. I *had* a Matrox Millenium 2Mb WRAM video card. The lack of technical support and attitude I encountered I found offensive; my reaction was a letter to them and I was able to exchange the card. My current card is not as fast - and wasn't well chosen for XFree86 support; it's a Graphics Xpression 2Mb DRAM PCI card with the 264CT chipset. I don't mind paying for what I get; I just refuse to accept a crappy attitude towards the customer. XFree86 and/or Linux support is a consideration in making choices, but not a driving one. Look at the new Red Hat release - the Official one has the MetroX driver included. I paid $49US for the new release, support, manual, _AND_ MetroX. A good deal. A proper response, I think, consists of a breif letter to MGA/Matrox stating that you either had and returned, or considered and rejected their card due to the lack of respect for customers and the attitude displayed by their personnel. Rickf. Peter F. McDermott wrote: > > Some companies just don't get it. Valdimir Vukicevic on the XFree86-3D list > requested information on Matrox's card (first message) and received the > second message as a reply. Unless Matrox changes their mind on release of > information, I suggest no one interested in running a free Unix system > buy their products. > > -Peter McDermott > pmcdermo@cs.utexas.edu > > From Vladimir Vukicevic to Matrox: > > Hi, I recently purchased a Matrox Millennium and am very happy with its > performance. However, I would like to be able to take advantage of its > hardware 3D rendering functionality. Unfortunately, the majority of > my work is done using OpenGL under Linux, and currently there are no > implementations of OpenGL that utilize the Millennium's hardware acceleration > under Linux. Moving to Windows NT is a possibility, but it would probably > be more trouble than it's worth for our project. > > I am interested in writing a Matrox hardware-accelerated implementation > of an OpenGL-compatible API under Linux. Please let me know the conditions > under which it would be possible for me to receive developers' information > on the MGA-2064W chip. It would also be preferable to have the resulting > work be available in the public domain. > > Currently, there is much interest in 3D acceleration under Linux and the > BSD derivatives on the intel platform; the Millennium would be an ideal > platform because of its low cost and excellent performance. Work is > already underway on utilising 3Dlabs' GLiNT chip; work will soon begin > on the Diamond EDGE 3D and Creative Labs' 3D Blaster cards, as well as > a preliminary release of Cirrus Logic's Davinci board. > > Please let me know if this is a possibility. > > Thanks in advance, > > -- Vladimir Vukicevic > -- vladimir@intrepid.com > --------------- > > This is a response I got from matrox to my message, attached below. Their > attitude is one of complete arrogance, and I would urge everyone to > boycott matrox products until they decide to open up their hardware docs. > (Sheesh, it's not like we're asking them for the chip fab designs, just > what bits to stuff where!) I have unfortunately bought a Millennium that > I can't return -- but I will probably be buying a real 3D card sometime > in the future. > > -- Vladimir Vukicevic > -- vladimir@intrepid.com > > ------- Forwarded Message > > Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:36:32 -0500 > To: Vladimir Vukicevic <vladimir@Intrepid.COM > From: Graphics.Techsupport@Matrox.COM (rs) > Subject: Re: Development information for Matrox Millennium > > Unix/Linux drivers & support for all our boards are available from X-Inside > at 303-384-9999. We have a closed architecture chip set. We have the fastest > board on the market. The reason for this is our chip set. We did not create > our own chip set, in which we spent millions of dollars, so that our > competitors can steal our designs. We are not like Cirrus or Diamond that > uses a Generic S3 chip set which every one has the source code. The company > policy is that we can not give any information on our chip sets under a non > disclosure agreement. We have nothing to do with unix/linux. We do not > create the drivers, we do not support the drivers, most of us have never > even seen unix/linux let alone the drivers. If you have any problems with > the drivers, contact X-inside. They do the Drivers, Support. X-Inside can be > reached at 303-384-9999. > > RS -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- | Rick Forrister | <rickf@glacier.jpl.nasa.gov | | Win 95: Where do you want to go today? | | Linux: What do you want tomorrow? | -------------------------------------------------------------------