*BSD News Article 59901


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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.solaris,comp.unix.aix
Subject: Re: ISP hardware/software choices (performance comparison)
Date: 18 Jan 1996 06:45:27 GMT
Organization: Utah Valley State College, Orem, Utah
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Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <4dkqa7$27e@park.uvsc.edu>
References: <4cmopu$d35@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <4dbun0$j2f@park.uvsc.edu> <4dg90i$6le@mail.fwi.uva.nl> <4dh42v$rnv@park.uvsc.edu> <4djgkh$kgn@Jester.CC.MsState.Edu>
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fwp@Jester.CC.MsState.Edu (Frank Peters) wrote:
] Fact: 4.x dropped support for 68k and x86 some time ago.  You won't find
]       support for either architecture in 4.1.3 or 4.1.4 (the last release
]       that supported the 68k was 4.1.1_U1, I'm not sure about the 386i).

I don't deny this.  I submit that this was Sun's choice, not a
sudden failure of all 68k and x86 code to operate after a certain
date.

Do you deny that ISP startups will typically use Intel hardware
or use used non-Intel hardware?

Cheap is a factor.

In the context of an ISP startup, OS support for older hardware
is a factor because cheap is a factor.

] Fact: A major reason given for dropping support for these architectures
]       was dropped from later 4.x releases was the difficulty of
]       maintaining the 4.x code base for them.  4.x source wasn't
]       written with the portability constraints needed to support
]       several architectures from the same code base.  Maintaining
]       multiple architectures in a practical fashion would have required
]       a major rewrite of the 4.x code.  There is every reason to expect
]       that such a rewrite would have engendered many of the same
]       performance problems and bugs that existed in earlier releases of
]       5.x.  

I don't deny that was the reason given.  I do question the
basis for that reason..  My statements were in support of my
posted statement:

| 4)   Available for Motorolla based hadware so a heterogeneous
|      environment can provide the user with a near-identical
|      interface acress platforms (Intel isn't an argument here;
|      remember the 386i?).

Specifically, I was addressing the issue of why 68k hardware
support was an advantage for 4.x over 5.x.

I believe this has been adequately covered elsewhere.

] Fact: Even when it did support intel, 4.x "ran on x86" only in the
]       sense that it ran on Sun's 386i platform.  You couldn't by a PC
]       and run 4.x on it.  5.x does, however, support commodity PC
]       hardware.  Claiming that 4.x x86 support and 5.x x86 support are
]       anywhere near equivalent is silly.

There was a conscious choice to not develop the necessary
drivers.  It was certainly *possible* for it to run on
commodity x86 rather than Sun hardware.

] > ] >5)	Compiles most net sources "out of the box" without
] > ] >	modification or use of a compatability environment.
] > ] 
] > ] Is true for Solaris 2.x for most non-ancient net software.
] > ] It's even more true in Solaris 2.5.
] > 
] > Because of the compatability environment.
] 
] No.  I have a wide variety of net source compiled under 5.x.  None
] required the compatibility environment (I know because the system
] I compile most of the code on doesn't have the compatibility environment
] installed).

I don't have any way of personally testing compilability without
the compatability environment installed.  I would be very
interested in the results of a "compilability cookoff" for
the contents of the comp*sources* archives.

It is my understanding that most of the code in the source
archives requires BSD interfaces and/or libraries.

Clearly, someone would have to have a lot of hardware to do
this type of test.


[ ... rancor and my rancorous response that I was going to post ... ]


Can we go back to discussing the subject line instead of making
me defend tangential discussions?


Dan Stromberg has a couple of nice points potentially in favor
of Solaris as an ISP platform; unfortunately, they came at the
very end of a 2297 line, 100k "discussion".  I can't (or rather
won't) post them without his permission, since the exchange was
private email.


With his permission (or posting of the points), we can pick
up there.


					Regards,
                                        Terry Lambert
                                        terry@cs.weber.edu
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.