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From: hsu@va.pubnix.com (Dave Hsu)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: ISP hardware/software choices (performance comparison)
Date: 17 Jan 1996 18:39:17 -0500
Organization: AlterNet -- Falls Church, Virginia, USA
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Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <4dk1b5$n08@arquebus.va.pubnix.com>
References: <4cmopu$d35@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <4dg90i$6le@mail.fwi.uva.nl> <4dh42v$rnv@park.uvsc.edu> <4djgkh$kgn@Jester.CC.MsState.Edu>
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In article <4djgkh$kgn@Jester.CC.MsState.Edu>,
Frank Peters <fwp@Jester.CC.MsState.Edu> wrote:
>According to Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>:
>> 4.x ran on SPARC and 68k and x86.
>> 5.x runs on SPARC and PPC and x86, not 68k, and I have yet to
>> see the released version for the Motorolla Ultra 603/604 board
>> because of the continued lack of OpenBoot support.
>>
>> So effectively, you have lost one platform and gained none.
>
>This is pure sophistry.
>
>Fact: 4.x dropped support for 68k and x86 some time ago. You won't find
> support for either architecture in 4.1.3 or 4.1.4 (the last release
> that supported the 68k was 4.1.1_U1, I'm not sure about the 386i).
I'm pretty sure the last 386i OS release was 4.0.2, a platform-specific
release (remember PSRs?) with a partially pageable kernel.
>Fact: Even when it did support intel, 4.x "ran on x86" only in the
> sense that it ran on Sun's 386i platform. You couldn't by a PC
> and run 4.x on it. 5.x does, however, support commodity PC
> hardware. Claiming that 4.x x86 support and 5.x x86 support are
> anywhere near equivalent is silly.
Probably, although you have to keep in mind that commodity PC hardware as
we know it today emerged shortly after the 386i release, and _that_ is what
has precipitated the viability of systems such as BSDI today. When the
Roadrunner was in development, Compaq's newly announced Deskpro 386 line
ran you about $10k (a lot of money for a desktop, in the pre-Windows era)
for a well-configured box. In fact, the first 386i development mules WERE
Compaq's with ISA-bus video-and-IO cards packed into them. There was no
SVGA. The OS/2 1.0 beta SDK made a good footrest while you were waiting
for Microsoft to finish writing a UI for it. Ethernet adapters were
$600-1000. Hardly a commodity situation, unless you were in the market for
a Leading Edge model "D" with a 256k and a CGA.
Look, in 1987, the SPARC looked like a runaway winner in the speed game
against Intel boxes, particularly as Motorola was struggling to get the
'030 out, and at less than twice the original rumored price. SVR4 was
to be the great unification of Unix, and AT&T (even with all of those
Olivetti execs) would bring the credibility that Sun needed to be a
business-machine company and not an engineering-machine company.
Someone else has already summarized the situation but just so there's no
doubt about where the players stood, I reprint here the original SunOS
convergence press release which started this mess.
-dave
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 87 16:53:26 PDT
From: amyc@Sun.COM (Amy Christen {X.11/NeWS Licensing})
*********************************************************************
For further information:
Lenora Vesio, AT&T 212-605-6760 Office 201-526-3686 Home
Carol Broadbent, Sun Microsystems*, Inc. 415-691-7737 Office
FOR RELEASE MONDAY, OCTOBER 19, 1987
NEW YORK, NY -- AT&T and Sun Microsystems, Inc., today unveiled plans
for a computer platform that will be unsurpassed in its ability to
protect customers' software investments, while allowing them to take
full advantage of technological innovation.
"This is the wave of the future," said Vittorio Cassoni, president of
AT&T's Data Systems Group. "We expect this platform to become a major
computing environment for the 1990's and beyond."
The new platform will use a unified version of AT&T's UNIX System V,
as well as Sun's recently announced Scalable Processor Architecture
(SPARC*), a flexible microprocessor design for chips that use reduced
instruction-set computing (RISC) technology. It will include a
standard interface, known as an application binary interface, or ABI,
which will run UNIX system software programs as interchangeably as
personal computers run PC software today.
"Customers are demanding freedom of choice and easy access to new
technology--needs that only the UNIX system can meet," said Cassoni.
"That is why AT&T is making a concerted effort to consolidate the UNIX
system market."
UNIX System V for the new platform will incorporate popular features of
the Berkeley 4.2 system, a derivative of the UNIX system used widely in
scientific and engineering markets, as well as features of SunOS*, a
variant of the Berkeley 4.2 systems marketed by Sun. These features
include networking and graphics features, such as the Network File
System (NFS*) and X.11/NeWS*, a graphic user interface.
Earlier this year, AT&T and Microsoft Corporation agreed to incorporate
the features of Microsoft's XENIX** into UNIX System V.
"Our agreement with Microsoft solidified the UNIX system market for
computers that use the Intel 80386 microprocessor, just as today's
agreement defines the UNIX system market for RISC computers," said
Cassoni.
"It's clear that the next generation of computers will be based on RISC
technology," said Scott McNealy, president and chief executive officer
of Sun Microsystems. "The safest investments today are computers based
on the UNIX system. The UNIX system is the only environment that can
ride the technology curve to RISC.
"The SPARC architecture is capturing widespread interest in the
industry," said McNealy. "With UNIX System V and the ABI, SPARC
systems will give customers a powerful, open alternative to the
proprietary computing environments that, in effect, discourage
innovation and growth."
The SPARC architecture is gaining acceptance among RISC chip
manufacturers, since it can be transferred, or scaled, easily to new,
more powerful semiconductor technologies. SPARC technology already has
been licensed to Fujitsu Microelectronics Inc., Cypress Semiconductor
Corp., and Bipolar Integrated Technology, Inc., for manufacture.
Sun markets the Sun-4* supercomputing workstation, which is based on a
SPARC implementation from Fujitsu.
"AT&T will add SPARC-based computers to its product line," Cassoni
said. "And since our 3B computers and 6386 WorkGroup Systems are based
on UNIX System V, our customers who require high-performance computers
will be able to migrate easily to SPARC-RISC technology while
protecting their current and future investments in 3B and 6386 software
and system training."
The new platform will be created in phases. By mid-1988, Sun will make
available a version of SunOS that will conform to AT&T's System V
Interface Definition. In 1989, AT&T will offer UNIX System V
incorporating key Berkeley 4.2 system and SunOS features. AT&T, with
Sun and others in the industry, then will continue to develop the
technology to be incorporated into the UNIX system to meet the market
needs of the 1990's.
AT&T and Sun will offer the new platform in their product lines. In
addition, AT&T will license the software technology and Sun will
license the SPARC architecture to other manufacturers.
###
* Trademark of Sun Microsystems, Inc.
** Trademark of Microsoft Corporation
###
--
Dave Hsu <hsu@va.pubnix.com> Systems Programmer Std disclaimers apply
Software Development Group / UUNET Technologies http://www.va.pubnix.com
"Never feel sorry for blockheads!" - Linus Van Pelt