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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.rmit.EDU.AU!news.unimelb.EDU.AU!munnari.OZ.AU!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!EU.net!Austria.EU.net!siemens.at!not-for-mail From: mingo@news.siemens.co.at (Ingo Molnar) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Date: 19 Dec 1995 08:56:20 GMT Organization: Siemens AG Austria Lines: 98 Message-ID: <4b5unk$afd@news.siemens.at> References: <489kuu$rbo@pelican.cs.ucla.edu> <4a14v5$1lq@dyson.iquest.net> <4a2kme$32d@josie.abo.fi <4agsg2$bqc@uriah.heep.sax.de> <4ai8rk$maf@solaria.cc.gatech.edu> <4aj6tv$g98@park.uvsc.edu> <4amduo$rnd@news.siemens.at> <4ao7hn$rf8@park.uvsc.edu> <4arkv4$las@news.siemens.at> <4att84$cqi@park.uvsc.edu> <4b1val$g9j@goliat.eik.bme.hu> <4b5bq9$e8e@park.uvsc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pc5829.hil.siemens-austria X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.advocacy:30785 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:10751 Terry Lambert (terry@lambert.org) wrote: : mingo@teto.sch.bme.hu (Molnar Ingo) wrote: : ] : ] "Free market" exists only for infinite worlds. : ] : ] : That's a very entropic statement. I believe it to be in : ] : error as well. The underlying assumption you have is that : ] : human endeavor is zero sum for a closed system. I don't : ] : think that this is provably true. : ] : ] no, it's not zero. But those super entities are macro-stable. : ] You can get rid of them only if you change the dynamics. : : I think that in this context, the non-zero sum is an inherently : destabilizing force for all entities below the meta-entity in : size (basically, humanity exists or doesn't -- a nice indivisible : statement by definition of the direction we used to define it 8-)). What i mean is: a super entity can be stable, this means that in almost all cases the super entity "wins", thus ruling the set of "possible outcomes" :) Since the probability is not zero, it gets destroyed every now and then, but it still dominates :( But this behaviour is only true for "static" systems. Static in the sense that the rules are static. (and laws are kinda static in my timescale) I agree, that this whole subject is "applied sciences". : ] : I agree that the information should not be destroyed. But I : ] : agree because it is a common belief we share, not because you : ] : have proven it. : ] : ] Well, if our world is reversible, then it really doesnt matter, : ] we can reach the same state in a few quadrillion of megayears. : ] But if it's nonreversible, then we should rather take care of : ] things :) : ] : ] ( according to the current laws of physics, our world is : ] reversible ) : : Except thermodynamics: Entropy increases. Unless you've heard : something about the missing mass or dark matter that I haven't... : : Non-reversibility is certainly one of the keystones to the : passion this type of discussion inspires. It lends a great : sense of immediacy to the problems that wouldn't be there : otherwise. This is not really important, but lets talk about reversibility :) The laws of thermodynamics are not basic laws. They are derived from more fundemental laws. Irreversibility is just the inability to "mirror" normal processes. But once "mirrored", they are reversible. There are a few real systems that can be "mirrored", like the "spin-echo experiment": a system of spins is put into an "order" (ie. they get magnetized), and after this "ordered state", they do their normal thermodynamical movements. Classical thermodynamics says: "this process is irrever- sible, you cant reach that ordered state again". But if you switch on a special electromagnetical field, the speed of each spin gets "mirrored", and each spin goes right back on it's way, finally rea- ching the "ordered state" again! So this is an example how a "hot" dynamical system can get "cold", thus making entropy >less<. (whole entropy remains zero) This is just the justification of what we already know: all micro- dynamic laws (quantum-mechanics, etc) are reversible. It just wasnt sure for a couple of years if there is any "reversibility loss" when we go to a macro state. (ie: who ensures that micro-laws are valid for macro-systems too?) : ] !!!!! This patent expires in 5 years or on the day Bill Gates dies. !!!!! : : You mean "copyright" . 8-). : : : Now there is only a 5 year lag on enlightenment for Bill's : customers... There is another possibility ... :)) [if someone wants to read this article BADLY, then he can kill Gates :))] [nice evolutionary pressure against bad software engineers :] : --- : Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present : or previous employers. -- -- Copyright 1995. Ingo Molnar, mingo@hercules.elte.hu, Microsoft Network is prohibited from redistributing this work in any form, in whole or in part without license. License to distribute this work is available to Microsoft at $500. Transmission without permission constitutes an agreement to these terms. This copyright expires in 5 years or on the day Bill Gates dies.