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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!nntp.coast.net!news.dacom.co.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!nickkral From: nickkral@parker.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Nick Kralevich) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Date: 2 Dec 1995 10:52:32 GMT Organization: Electrical Engineering Computer Science Department, University of California at Berkeley Lines: 152 Message-ID: <49pb5g$di8@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <489kuu$rbo@pelican.cs.ucla.edu> <49k0dd$pfg@nntp5.u.washington.edu> <49o2n2$t4e@daffy.anetsrvcs.uwrf.edu> <49osrd$ptg@times.tfs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: parker.eecs.berkeley.edu Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.advocacy:28820 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:9631 comp.unix.advocacy:11582 comp.unix.misc:19746 In article <49osrd$ptg@times.tfs.com>, Julian Elischer <julian@mailhub.tfs.com> wrote: >Whoops, can't let you get away with that one I'm afraid.. >The entire FreeBSD system are available on a DAILY basis >(or should I say CONTINUAL basis) The releases are just the time >when we make an EXTRA effort to snapsot it and we >'freeze development' for a while to get that snapshot >'right'. This is funny. I've been following a thread in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc. The title of the thread is "NetBSD camp reaction to OpenBSD?". It seems that some of the NetBSD people rejected a person named Theo De Raadt from the core development team, and that person went out and created another distribution called OpenBSD (http://www.openbsd.org/). So I agree with the person who called BSD a "Developer's Guild". It just doesn't seem that open to me when the developers of an operating system kick someone out of the development environment. Included below are some articles that may be of interesting reading: | From: Todd C Miller <millert@cs.Colorado.EDU> | Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix. | + bsd.freebsd.misc | [1] Re: NetBSD camp reaction to OpenBSD? | Date: Sat Nov 25 09:44:30 PST 1995 | Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder | | Speaking simply as someone who watched all of the sillyness that | transpired on the NetBSD mailing lists during the Theo escapade, | I'm sorrow that the schism happened, but that's about it. | Theo has done some amazing work and I hope that the copyright | for OpenBSD is in the Berkeley style so that the other BSD's | can pick up some of his stuff. I'm sure that there will be | quite a few people upset about yaBSD (yet another BSD), but | I don't see healthy competition being a real problem as long | as both camps are free to incorporate the other's ideas and | code. Not surprisingly, this is how I felt about the NetBSD/FreBSD | split. | | - todd | -- | Todd C. Miller Sysadmin--University of Colorado Todd.Miller@cs.colorado.edu And another follow to this thread: | Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix. | + bsd.freebsd.misc | From: st@epcc.ed.ac.uk (Scott Telford) | [1] Re: NetBSD camp reaction to OpenBSD? | Organization: Edinburgh Parallel Computing Centre, University of Edinburgh, | + UK. | Date: Tue Nov 28 05:34:35 PST 1995 | | In article <498sl3$52h@ector.cs.purdue.edu>, David Moffett | (dpm@cs.purdue.edu) wrote: | > Would it be opening Pandoras Box for us non-list readers to get a one | > screen summary of what caused this split? Was it a people vs people or | > technical ideas vs technical ideas kind of problem? | > | > Please no flames, just a short summary. | | OpenBSD appears to be a result of Theo De Raadt's ejection from the | NetBSD core team, which, in short, was a people thing, not a technical | thing. | | -- | Scott Telford, Edinburgh Parallel Computing Centre, <s.telford@ed.ac.uk> | University of Edinburgh, Mayfield Rd, Edinburgh, EH9 UK.(+44 131 650 5978) | "Is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" "What's difference?" (Snow Crash) As for the "openness" of FreeBSD development, I refer you (again) to the following threads from comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc: | Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix. | + bsd.freebsd.misc | From: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (Martin Cracauer) | [1] Re: NetBSD camp reaction to OpenBSD? | Organization: BSD User Group Hamburg | | "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@FreeBSD.org> writes: | | >Just looking at http://www.openbsd.org this evening, and it looks like a | >significant NetBSD clone in many respects - at least most of the | >platforms would appear to be NetBSD "rebadges" for the time being. | | [...] | | Well, one thing that seems really more "open" in OpenBSD is public | readonly CVS access (as advertised, don't know if this is up for | now). | | I'd really like to see this for NetBSD/FreeBSD, too. As an example, it | would make it much easier to look at John Dyson's work on the VM | system without having to ask someone to check out all these changes. | | Martin | -- To which Jordan K. Hubbard replied: | From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@FreeBSD.org> | Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix. | + bsd.freebsd.misc | [1] Re: NetBSD camp reaction to OpenBSD? | Date: Wed Nov 29 19:27:19 PST 1995 | Organization: Walnut Creek CDROM | | Martin Cracauer wrote: | > ... | > I'd really like to see this for NetBSD/FreeBSD, too. As an example, it | > would make it much easier to look at John Dyson's work on the VM | > system without having to ask someone to check out all these changes. | | Let's ask the NetBSD Project: What do you say, guys? A year or so ago, | both groups shut down mutual read access for fears both real and | imagined. What's our situation today? Anyone over there having | seditious thoughts about tearing down the Berlin wall? I personally | would not mind at all. | -- | Jordan So far, there has been *NO* announcement of the opening of the CVS tree. Summary: You have to be a member of the BSD core team to be able to see any real changes in the source code. Membership is restricted to a select group, and if your not in that group, tough luck. Even if your a good programmer, but other people in the group don't like you, you can get kicked out. Not exactly what I call "open" or a conductive development environment. Personally, I prefer Linux. Of course, all of this has nothing to do with the technical merits of the two operating systems. But then again, that's never stopped an advocacy group before. :) (in followups, please be sure to include CORRECT attribution lines. I don't want to be coming back later on and trying to claim that I did or didn't make certain statements). Take care, -- Nick Kralevich nickkral@cory.eecs.berkeley.edu