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Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!simtel!news.kei.com!newshost.marcam.com!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!wakko.cce.iastate.edu!marcus From: marcus@ccelab.iastate.edu (Marcus I. Ryan) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: The Future of FreeBSD... Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:43:52 LOCAL Organization: Iowa State University Lines: 108 Message-ID: <marcus.197.009F3034@ccelab.iastate.edu> References: <3uktse$d9c@hal.nt.tuwien.ac.at> <3ulsro$ssl@agate.berkeley.edu> <3umkok$de2@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: wakko.cce.iastate.edu X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4] In article <3umkok$de2@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Jon Jenkins <jenkinsj@ozy.dec.com> writes: >From: Jon Jenkins <jenkinsj@ozy.dec.com> >Subject: Re: The Future of FreeBSD... >Date: 20 Jul 1995 22:19:00 GMT >I wont reply to the detail of this post but I will give >a completely subjective opinion of what FreeBSD needs >to survive and propser: >(GUI GUI GUI GUI GUI GUI )^100000000000000000000000000000 >We could all learn something from MS Windows success. What? Abandon ethics? Be a bully? MS-Windows is a success because of Bill Gates. If it weren't for his marketing and business skills, windows probably never would have done any better than other GUIs. I remember when Windows 3.0 came out - there were at least 5 or 6 active GUIs on INTEL systems alone, all being sold in a similar fashion (preinstalled on the system at purchase). GUI is not why windows won. >An easy to use GUI X development tools ala Borlands Delphi >for Windows. This makes GUI development easy and quick. >Probably this would be based on Xview or Motif clone >maybe even Tcl/Tk but the next generation allowing users >to "drag n drop" user interfaces for X. This technology >is technically feasible with current tools and if done >properly would without a doubt become the industry >standard UNIX/X develpment tool. From http://www.shsu.edu/~stdyxc05/VXP/ VXP -- Visual X windows Programming Interface VXP is an integrated Motif graphical user interface (GUI) builder. Application developer can build a working Motif GUI in minutes, simply by pointing and clicking on predefined icons which represent Motif widgets, then dragging and dropping them on the design space. VXP provides developer an environment to design a Motif GUI for your application interactively, and generates the C code required to producethe GUI. VXP also lets developer edit non-GUI code of the application, compile the application and test it... combined with LessTif (from http://www.cs.uidaho.edu:8000/hungry/microshaft/lesstif.html: LessTif is the Hungry Programmers' version of OSF/Motif. It will be source code compatible with Motif, meaning that the same source will compile with both libraries and work exactly the same.) I'd say things are coming right along. >With this tool the basics i.e make it easy >to install with simple easy to use >graphical user interfaces for everthying from >network setup to system configuration to >file management to program development to ..., >are easy and simple to develop. The install is already easy - or at least as easy as the NT and OS/2 installations I've been through. There are already other X-Windows applications to do as you suggest. Though the ones I can think of off the top of my head are commercial, I'd be amazed if there weren't shareware ones out there somewhere... >Once this happens the "hords" will take it form there >as they have with MS Windows and develop/port >all sorts of proggies to make life easier. Don't bet on it. Afterall, OS/2 has many of the same kinds of developement tools and it's still floundering (though it's catching up a little). As much as I hate to say it, what actually sells and operating system these days is hype. OS/2 Warp managed to catch up by quite a bit, simply by including the Internet BonusPak. Do you think that "You on-ramp to the information superhighway" and "Enhances You Exisiting DOS and Windows(TM)" on the side of the box did nothing for sales? If FreeBSD had the resources to do the kind of advertising they have, I bet that FreeBSD would be much more popular. As I recall, advertising - well, sort of - is what Jordan Hubbard was actually hired by Walnut Creek to do. His official description was more PR than advertising, but since we're not trying to sell FreeBSD, one is close enough to the other :) >Contrary to both opinions I dont think >FreeBSD needs to be bleeding edge to survive >in fact I think it would be its death nell >if all this "new technology" is introduced >without removing the archaic academic UNIX >philosophy "if it ain't hard to use it ain't >UNIX" which still pervades the UNIX mindset >of both academic and commercial thinking. UNIX is not any harder to use than DOS. People talk about having to reconfig the kernel, and edit some files in /etc, but look at all of the time and tweaking it takes in DOS just to get some device drivers going, let alone to get the thing on the network. If you don't network it, there's that much less configuration. It all depends on what you want to do with it. FreeBSD is making it easier all of the time. Just don't expect them to sacrifice UNIX compatibility for "ease of use" (ls will always be ls, etc.) - it would defeat the purpose. [Jon's signature snipped] ---------------------------------------------------------------- Marcus I. Ryan |*Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice Asst. SysAdmin, CCE Labs | doggie!' until you can find a rock. Iowa State University |-------------------------------------- shad@iastate.edu |*Diplomacy - Letting someone else have (515) 294-0715 | things your way. ----------------------------------------------------------------