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From: terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.)
Subject: Re: BSD/OS v2.0 HWE disappointments
Nntp-Posting-Host: spcvxa.spc.edu
References: <3j837n$6ar@genesis.npr.legent.com>
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Organization: St. Peter's College, US
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 09:32:48 GMT
Message-ID: <1995Mar4.043248.1@spcvxb.spc.edu>
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In article <3j837n$6ar@genesis.npr.legent.com>, woodward@lust (Jeff P. Woodward) writes:
> i have just received the BSD/OS v2.0 release, and
> -after a quick review- i've come to the conclusion that
> the BSDI hwe support folks, or the marketing folks who
> are feeding the hwe support guys information, have
> *got* to be smoking the bong.
What's hwe? Hardware?
> on the first few pages of the 2.0 release manual is a
> disclaimer which states that the only adaptek 32-bit
> controllers which are supported are EISA - bus cards
> ( e.g. the 1742A ). they specifically do *not*
> include support for *any* of the adaptek 2xxx cards!!!!
> similarly, they support virtually *no* VLB devices
> to speak of!!!
You've apparently misread the document. All of the BusLogic boards, in-
clusing several ISA models, 2 EISA models, 2 VLB models and a PCI model
are supported. Adaptec support is limited to the 154x family, the 174x,
and the 152x.
That isn't by BSDI's choice, though. Adaptec considers (or at least the
last time anybody asked, they did) their programming information for the
2-series cards proprietary. They want you to practically sign in blood for
the information and have restrictions on redistribution that would be very
difficult for the BSDI folks to manage with (in my opinion).
The BusLogic boards, on the other hand, have a freely available documented
programming interface which happens to be consistent across the whole prod-
uct line (unlike Adaptecs, where each board family needs a unique driver).
Several people have tried to convince Adaptec of the error of their ways,
but so far it's had no effect. I've heard that some people have developed
Adaptec 2-series drivers for other Unix-like systems. If they're available,
they should be portable to BSD/OS. However, there's money in suing a business
while there isn't nearly as much money to be had suing an author of free
software (as BSDI found out when USL sued BSDI but not the free *BSD groups).
So, even if a driver was available from a 3rd party, it doesn't mean BSDI
would be comfortable including it on the bootable distribution media. Of
course, if you know of such a driver you should ask BSDI through the normal
support channels if they would include it in a future release. I don't work
for BSDI and can't speak for them.
> now, a quick look at this month's computer shopper
> shows that virtually *every* motherboard advertisement
> that *exists* is for a VLB motherboard, and virtually
> *every* ad for adaptek scsi cards is for a 2xxx card.
> ( and we're talking about 100's of advertisements )
> a quick lunchtime trip to the two biggest chicagoland
> vendors of computer equipment ( comp USA and elek-tec )
> yielded similar results. i.e. virtually *nobody*
> carries the adaptek 17xx line anymore, and *most*
> of everything they *do* carry for 32-bit mode
> ( video cards, ethernet cards, I/O controllers,
> etc. etc. ) are VLB cards and PCI cards. EISA
> cards are almost museum pieces these days.
Sure - Adaptec is doing their best to stop making the 1-series cards, ex-
cept possibly the 154xCF, which owes its longevity to the fact that it's
programming interface is well-documented, freely available, and supported
by just about every OS known to man.
The 174x is still manufactured. DEC is a large OEM customer for these.
Adaptec would rather sell the 2-series board as there should be lots more
profit in it. However, the fact that DEC, a much larger company than BSDI
(at least at the gross level - I think BSDI made more net than DEC for a
few quarters 8-) doesn't support the 2-series might give you something to
think about.
I've got news for you - the Unix/Windows NT/OS/2/whatver market is so
small that any hardware vendor could easily kiss it goodbye and never no-
tice. That's the root of Adaptec's arrogance. When BSDI's lack of Adaptec
2-series support causes Adaptec to lose 10's of thousand board sales, may-
be Adaptec will sit up and listen. However, unlike Intel's Pentium fisaco,
10,000 individual users bitching to Adaptec won't have any effect (it was
tried when the 2-series first came out). It needs to be from big vendors
of hardware (not software, like BSDI, but hardware, like DEC) saying they
won't buy the boards unless the programming information is public. Of
course, those vendors generally don't ship source-level drivers, so even
if they did negotiate a deal with Adaptec it might not help BSDI.
> this quick market analysis of what's out there
> took me all of one evening in my easychair at home,
> and one long lunch to perform. i guess the BSDI
> guys don't get out of the office much, or maybe
> they'd have noticed the same market trends!!! after
> a great deal of excitement and anticipation concerning
> the 2.0 release, my colleagues and i are *bitterly*
> disappointed in the results of their last effort.
> this is all the more disappointing because BSD/OS,
> from almost every other angle, is a pretty neat
> product. there's only one big problem. you've
> got to have access to a museum to find hardware
> that they support!!!
Wrong. I'm running BSD/OS releases from 1.0 to 2.0 on PCI SCSI controllers
from BusLogic, which are hardly museum fodder. As a general comment, I'd
like to see more hardware support, but *before* BSDI does that I'd like to
see some features that are software-only changes to other parts of the
product.
If you're a BSDI customer, the way to make your feelings known is to send
mail to your support contact and ask for the feature(s) you want. If you're
not yet a customer, contact BSDI and tell them what it would take to make
you buy the product. Note that if only 100 copies or so would get sold that
*wouldn't* get sold without Adaptec 2-series support, my guess is it isn't
cost-effective to add the support, even if it was possible. OTOH, if you're
a hardware vendor and would sign a contract for N copies of the product if
it had the drivers you wanted, then you might get a response that would make
you happy. Remember that the Intel fiasco has proven that it's really easy
to get a letter-writing campaign going on the Internet. Any company that
relies on letters that say "I'd buy your product if..." is going to have to
do a damn good job sorting out the people who will *really* buy if their
demands are met from the people who are just tagging along. Maybe BSDI can
ask for deposits 8-).
Again, I don't speak for BSDI - I'm just a customer who happens to also
write drivers.
Terry Kennedy Operations Manager, Academic Computing
terry@spcvxa.spc.edu St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
+1 201 915 9381 (voice) +1 201 435-3662 (FAX)