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Xref: sserve comp.os.386bsd.misc:5075 comp.os.linux.misc:34026 comp.os.os2.advocacy:76043 Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!msunews!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!tandem!pacbell.com!well!henryh From: henryh@well.sf.ca.us (Henry Hwong) Newsgroups: comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.os2.advocacy Subject: Re: Linux thoroughly insulted by Infoworld! Followup-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.os2.advocacy Date: 24 Jan 1995 20:53:17 GMT Organization: The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA Lines: 76 Message-ID: <3g3pbt$13a@nkosi.well.com> References: <950116203411@lambada> <3g0mnn$ccp@nkosi.well.com> <3g267v$1e3@blackice.winternet.com> <3g34fr$jri@nkosi.well.com> <3g3g14$1vd@galaxy.ucr.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: well.sf.ca.us X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Joe Sloan (jjs@dostoevsky.ucr.edu) wrote: : In article <3g34fr$jri@nkosi.well.com>, : Henry Hwong <henryh@well.sf.ca.us> wrote: : >Sure, I can try to convince my clients to look at Linux. It's free! : >However, now I have to look at how much time it would take to maintain or : >setup. For a consultant, time is big bucks. Many times, it is cheaper : >for me to recommend a whole solution (Sun, HP, IBM) that comes in a package : >with everything installed instead of me spending the time to put together : >a 486 or Pentium system running Linux. : The solution is easy - buy a pre-installed linux system. I know of several : vendors who sell ready-to-go linux workstations. You seem to be under the : impression that the only way to get linux is to start with a dos machine : and a CD-ROM or a pile of disks, and ftp'ing here and there for apps... : Maybe in the early days, it was that way - but not anymore... Will those companies be willing to come out here and install them for us? Can they give us 24hr support on what they sell? Can they come out here and fix things on site? If so, great! Where do I sign up? : >Then we have to do technology transfer to the client. It's easy to find : >classes for Solaris, AIX, SCO, or HPUX. Linux classes? Uh. Hmm. Well, I : >could spend the time ($$) to teach you everything about Linux. RTFM just : >doesn't cut it with clients. And I can't tell clients to just fire all : >their mainframe people and just hire people who recently graduated from : >college, either. : If they don't fire their "mainframe people" when they buy SCO or HP/UX, : why would linux be any different? your argument makes no sense. What? My argument makes perfect sense. I don't know where you work, but if you want to retain people, you must retrain them in new technology. Constantly turning over people, which, I know, is the Silicon Valley model, is a much more expensive way of doing things. Besides, would you want to work for a place that didn't spend the money to retrain you to either keep you updated or allow you to move forward? I suppose if you work in something you're willing to spend the bucks outside of your employment or if you just want to twiddle in technology all your life, it doesn't matter. My point about the classes (God, why am I always reexplaining my points? Are my examples that unclear?) is that, while those UNIXes are more expensive in shrinkwrapped form, the training will be cheaper. Classes speed things up. Less downtime and smaller consulting fees. The axiom that time = money is very true. Think about it. : >That's why consultants like me pick the packages. I have to find the best : >solution for my clients. Long term, that $1000 I tell my client to spend : >on SCO is cheaper than going with Linux. The hidden people costs are : >what kill you. : I think you are looking at a static snapshot of the state of linux some : months or years ago. The point you are missing is the terrific momentum : in the linux movement - your assumptions about linux are obviously based : on old data - and brother, old stuff gets old fast around here! Missing the "terrific momentum in the linux movement?" Hardly. With Usenet infected with Linuxitus, how can I miss it? With all the hype that it's getting around here, you'd think that Linux could cure the common cold, and ensure peace, equality, and clean air. Obviously my world and your world aren't the same. So be it. Businesses can't afford to bank on "terrific momentum." That's why people are still using mainframes. They don't care about cutting edge, because, more than likely, it can be the bleeding edge. How many technologies have flamed out? Definitely more than have been successful. People make fun of IBM mainframes all the time (me included), but, damn, their tools are stable and mature. I can not afford to tell businesses to use unproven tools. Sure, our Advanced Technology Group is playing with the new stuff, but businesses want *proven* technology. And, no, a bunch of people on the Internet messing with it doesn't count as "proven." I guess I'm just jaded from all the marketing BS that happens all the time in technology. -Henry