*BSD News Article 40245


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From: schwartz@galapagos.cse.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.powerpc,comp.sys.intel,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.bsd,comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit,comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.unix.misc,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.386bsd.development,comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: Interested in PowerPC for Linux / FreeBSD / NetBSD?
Date: 31 Dec 1994 05:20:50 GMT
Organization: Penn State Comp Sci & Eng
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <SCHWARTZ.94Dec31002050@galapagos.cse.psu.edu>
References: <3cilp3$143@news-2.csn.net> <3d4ucp$sbn@hearst.cac.psu.edu>
	<SCHWARTZ.94Dec27155146@galapagos.cse.psu.edu>
	<D1nL8D.8GE@indirect.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: galapagos.cse.psu.edu
In-reply-to: wes@indirect.com's message of Sat, 31 Dec 1994 02:21:48 GMT

wes@indirect.com (Barnacle Wes) writes:
   Perhaps you should read the white paper on the weaknesses of
   Kerberos prepared by bellcore; it will disabuse you of these
   notions.

Are you thinking of Bellovin and Merritt's "Limitations of the
Kerberos Authentication System"?  That wasn't a white paper, it was
published in CCR, and it was from Bell Labs, not Bellcore.  And you
should reread the conclusion which says that using kerberos will
dramatically improve your situation.  No system is perfect, but that's
no reason to do nothing!

   Why is lack of authentication in a network file system a manifest defect?

Because it means that random people can delete all your files.  Just
like in MS-DOS.

   Why would the millions of users on trusted local-area networks using NFS,
   or NetWare for that matter, need to have some complicated, buggy, unproven
   authentication system jammed down their throats in order to share disks
   between their computers? 

Huh?  I'm proposing that they use a straightforward, reliable, system
proven by years of experience and slated to become an internet
standard, in order to reliably, safely, and securely share filesystems
between their computers.

   Ooops, I forgot - you're the only *important* user on the planet,
   aren't you?

Whatever you say.  But just out of curiosity, do you type a password
when you log on?  If so, is it just for fun, or does your os actually
use it for something?

   Any many would contend that since it is freely available, it is *obviously
   not a viable mechanism*.  Who's going to support it?  OpenVision? Yeah,
   right.  MIT?  Not hardly.

Cygnus, Digital, OSF, Transarc, Sun.  Whoever sells it to you.  Just
like X.

   You also completely missed my point: Kerberos, or any other "authentication"
   scheme, is not a panacea for computer security.  

No, that's what *I* said.  Kerberos is merely much, much better than
the status quo, which is no security at all.
 
   Don't get me wrong, I agree that a distributed file system with strong
   authentication is a must-need product for many organizations (dare I
   say 'enterprises'?).

Uh... ok.

   Such a product is *not*, however, needed by *everyone* who wants to
   share files or disk drives with his neighbor in the next office,

Fine, but given the must-have thing you mention just above, they can
just use that with no hassles.  Why have two things in the os when one
will do?

   And perhaps you should consider using AFS,

We do.  Works great.

   or since you know so much about this, you should develop KFS and
   make it available to all us idiots too stupid to realize that NFS,
   which has supported us for 10 years now, is woefully inadequate.

NFS has all the machinery it needs to do the right thing.  It was
designed with hooks for a real authentication system, Sun ships one
with their os, all your vendor needs to do is plug in kerberos instead.