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Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!msunews!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.charm.net!news.charm.net!cnordin From: cnordin@charm.net (Craig Nordin) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd Subject: Re: What is best UNIX & hardware for ISP? Date: 13 Dec 1994 00:50:50 -0500 Organization: Charm.Net : Baltimore Local Internet Access, Hon Lines: 129 Message-ID: <cnordin.787296675@news.charm.net> References: <riceD0oLKx.455@netcom.com> <VIXIE.94Dec11220843@gw.home.vix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sowebo.charm.net >It sounds like you don't need source, so if you get BSDI's offering you >should get the binary-only option (less money). On the other hand it sounds >like you need support, so unless you have a consultant available or a techno- >wizard on your staff, you probably want BSDI over Linux/FreeBSD since you'll >want a number you can call when you have trouble. BSDI's support isn't cheap >(after the warranty period, that is) but it's a lot cheaper than a technowizard >on your staff, or a consultant charging you by the hour. Charm Net is using Unixware and I think there are advantages to it. But I've heard only good things about the BSDI support, and I think you'll soon want the source. >>What is the hardware best suited for this? Should I go for a P90 or stick >>with a 486/66? >The P5-90 runs like the wind, much faster than any Sun I've ever used and >definitely faster than a 486DX2. On the other hand, ISP tends to be an IO- >limited business, and a 486DX2 can drive your modems and hard drives as fast >as they'll go. Figure that either one will work for now, and that you will >likely be buying more systems in the future so either one will have a place >later on, too. Probably the bigger concern is what IO bus you use for your >disk and network IO. I recommend EISA, as ISA is too slow and PCI is too... >well... flakey. VLB works great for video but stay away from it for SCSI. We had some VLB Ultrastore SCSI-2 Fast cards, that bugged out only periodically at boot time. But that was terrible enough. Try not to depend on any one machine and buy uniform so you can swap parts in an emergency. Ideally you should have backup for each critical piece of your service, you must confront what you don't have covered and be prepared for failures. Don't expect the 486 to breathe gently on a full and open news feed with many concurrent connections. That P90 is a must. Expect 200+ megs a day to be indexed, sorted, purged, and stored. >>How much RAM and disk space (IDE or SCSI?) should I begin with? >Skip IDE. It tops out at ~550MB unless you get new "enhanced IDE" which is >not widely supported by the Intel BSD's. SCSI is way cheap -- 1GB @$650 or >better. Figure a 1GB drive for a system disk and then as many 2GB drives >as you figure you'll need -- one for news, then N for ????. Forget IDE! SCSI-2 Fast at least, Wide if you can. Go with all 1 Gigs and try like heck NOT to segment your filesystem up too much. If you have a free Gig of space, you can perform filesystem miracles on demand, and your system will be more stable. >>Which Multi-port board should I go for? >For sheer port density you can't beat Digiboard (64 ports per slot). If you >decide to use a multiport serial board rather than a separate terminal server >(and I always recommend against terminal servers in these applications), then >you should start by figuring out how many modems per system you will need, >divide by the number of slots you have available for this purpose, and then >find out which boards supported by the operating system will give that number >or more. Note that Digiboard has an EISA version of their board, and even >though my back-of-envelope calculations tell me that ISA is good enough for >64 ports, I use the EISA board and have had no trouble with it on at least >three different systems now. Don't compromise on anything less than a comm server from the beginning. As far as I can tell, the Livingston Portmaster, which will cost $100 per serial port (up to 115K) if you buy 30 ports. All that I/O stuff is translated by the portmaster into network traffic and uses the sublimely efficient net drivers that come with your Unix. The Portmaster comes with a life-time guarantee and these guys are great with a provider, sending you a replacement over-night. >>Is the RISCom/N2 good if I go with BSD/OS or should I go for an external >>router (If the former, should I get the N2-S or N2-D?) ? >I've had mixed results with the RISCom/N2. On two 486DX2 systems I've put in, >it runs like a hose (that is, it works well). On one P5-90 I put in, it fails >periodically and the system needs to be rebooted to clear the board's state. >(Naturally the P5-90 was a cheap motherboard that I hadn't had time to test in >my shop before delivering it to the customer -- there's a lesson for me.) No problems with Unixware and the P90 that I have. >If you expect to go at T3 rates to your provider, or sell more than a handful >of T1 lines to your customers, you will need an external router, and for >external routers I always use Cisco. But if you just want to do four or less >T1's, I like the integrated router-server concept. You should still use >seperate boxes for your IO-intensive stuff (news, shell access), but being >able to hang modems off the same box that does T1 seems very neat and clean >to me. PPP in, T1 out, no fuss, no muss, no ethernet hop -- that it, until >you are so big that all your modems and T1's won't fit on the same box, and >then you're in for some hops but at least it won't happen on *every* packet. Unless you intend to retard growth, I'd offer the different opinion that you should try like heck now to structure your whole net environment for growth now. The sooner you can see real modularity in the expansion, the sooner your "architect/builder" duties will level off :) >>Should I go for Rackmount modems or just regular externals? How many? >Figure your modems will be used by about 15% of your user population at any >one time. So if you have 150 users, you will need 10 modems or folks will >start to get busy signals and compare you to Netcom which would be bad. If >you have dollars to burn, the USR "Total Control" rackmount system has the >best port density (per rack inch) I've ever seen, and they are really neat >and clean and easy to maintain. If you want to do it cheaply, get a used >Telebit rack (or several) or buy standalone AT&T Dataport 14.4 modems. We started out with the optimism that we would be serving 5% of the clients at any one time. I think the real number for us is between the 15% mentioned above and 12%. The sysop deals you will get will probably defy the cost of the Total Control setup. V.34 modems should cost you less than $200. We like the PPIs, and they too have a life-time warranty. >>Any help with this is GREATLY appreciated! >Good luck and let us all know how it turns out. Yes, do! I've had a good time adding my lines here, but the first comments taught me a few things. I've just winged comments here. -- See the Emerald on the Matrix? Baltimore, Maryland Access to the Internet That's Charm.Net Hon! E-Mail: info@charm.net Voice:(410) 558.3900 http://www.charm.net/ "guest" login, no password Data:(410) 558.3300