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From: jmonroy@netcom.com (Jesus Monroy Jr)
Subject: Re: Call for 386BSD Rel.1.0 SIG (Special Interest Group)
Message-ID: <jmonroyCuwt5o.Cpw@netcom.com>
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References: <jmonroyCuFvqp.BKv@netcom.com> <3319ti$7rl@agate.berkeley.edu> <JKH.94Aug20133237@time.cdrom.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 1994 23:56:11 GMT
Lines: 225
Jordan K. Hubbard (jkh@time.cdrom.com) wrote:
: In article <jmonroyCuu0HM.7p3@netcom.com> jmonroy@netcom.com (Jesus Monroy Jr) writes:
: I must say, that either I have change or perhaps this
: is an off-day for you because usually I get much snappier
: responses from you, Jordan.
: I think the effort would have been wasted on you anyway if your reply
: is anything to go by. But, as you seem to like to say, "let's continue."
:
It takes two to tango.
: I don't believe that I've asked this of anyone, but
: perhaps in the interest of objectiveness, let's say
: I did ask that question: "Why follow Bill?".
: Ok, yes, let's say you did. So... You wouldn't happen to have an answer
: to that question, would you?
:
OK.
: I will take your comments as the prevailing opinion
: of the *bsd development community on the "NET".
: However, other people do not feel the same, and
: this is my reminder to you that this is so.
: That is fine. Some people believe in the great pumpkin and that Elvis
: is alive and living in a quonset hut on the third moon of Jupiter,
: too, but this doesn't stop them from being total wackmobiles! Anyway,
: "let's continue."
:
OK.
: I'd take a similar look at persons that are involved with
: the current development of *bsd (no pun intended), I might
: consider myself to be heading for economic suicide.
: None the less, I will consider your question: "why should
: we trust him?", as partially retorical. Let's continue
: with the discussion.
: Well, hang on a sec - my point was that the {Net,Free}BSD folks HAVE
: been delivering "product" all this time while Bill has been
: conspicuously absent.
:
Let's take this point up.
*BSD people have been delivering products, I won't
argue as to the quality or quantity; that's not a issue.
Bill Jolitz for all intensive purpose has been on
the planet ZENON (where-ever that is)
We'll take this as correct and factual (or factitious
it is suits you).
: I'm not keen to continue the general Bill-bash
: here, but it has to be said that there ARE far more grounds to trust
: either of the independant *BSD groups than there are to trust Bill!
:
I think I must disagree.
If the issue is do we trust Bill's word on
the delivery time, then I say "NO".
If the issue is do we trust Bill's program,
documenting and analytical skill, then I have
to reply with a hardy "YES!".
Mind you, my work (FDC, QIC, RTC and the RTE) have
all sat idle waiting for Bill to finish 1.0 (or 0.2).
I've been totally frustrated for two years just
sitting on my ass waiting.
After all this my lesson are Bill won't deliver
any work *that is free* on your schedule; he never will.
#2 Don't ever attempt to pin someone to a time
schedule that is doing *free work*
#3 don't ask for help on the "NET", because
there is a populous of morons striving
to be the next Bill Gates.
Now, in the last few days (weeks) I have tried
to maintain a professional attitude about
everything envolved, but responses from both
groups {Free/Net}BSD have informed me that
person of less than a mature attitude are
blathering self-proclaimed knowledge.
Taking this into consideration, what are
the promise that hold for me by the current *BSD groups?
(and this is not retorical)
: He's promised a lot and delivered nothing so far.
:
I think you'll need to be more specific on this one
before I will respond.
: We've made our own
: promises, but by and large we've delivered on them!
:
You'll definitely have to be more clear on this one.
: This doesn't make
: us great, nor even as brilliant as Bill, it just makes us a lot more
: RELIABLE, which was the substance of my point.
:
You'll have to answer to questions before you
get a respond from me on this.
#1 What is it that you consider the must be
*reliable*?
#2 How do you measure reliability?
: Sounds more like IBM that DEC to me... Let's continue.
: You said it, I didn't.
:
OK.... Microsoft... then.
: >> fashion and they ate DEC's lunch.
: >>
: In this case, let's consider "lunch" to be symbolic of
: a reward perhaps. A reward that one might relish in a
: moment of great victory. ..... continuing.
: Uh... What?? Jesus - you really must stabilize your medication! I
: think you've got the dosage completely ill-adjusted to your current
: level of tolerance. This is all certainly past mine, anyway.
:
OK.... Jordan.. what the hell do you consider *lunch* to be?
: >> Might we learn something from this small parable?
: >>
: Retorical, again I take it !?!
: No, a rhetorical question is one that one asks already knowing the answer.
: I have no idea whether or not it's possible for you to learn anything
: from my parable, thus making the question anything but rhetorical in at
: least your case.
:
So your considering the question to be retorical for
the third party readers, as I am?
: >> I have, but somehow, I do not think that Jesus has or will.
: I learn and follow quit well.
: Sometimes, I wish you would..
:
Well, we are both following along quite well...
: Well, this part is true... although I don't think
: I would use the word "guru" with Bill.... Czar might
: be more in line. (no pun intended)
: So I guess the release of NetBSD was the October revolution then, eh? :-)
:
heheheheheh.. not bad.... let's continue.
: >> I also went to the talk, and saw little or no clothes on the Emperor (well,
: >> perhaps a modest loincloth). More details on that little soire' later..
: Now, which talk are we mentioning here, August the 17th
: or some other date?
: The August 17th talk. You mean he gave more than one? Shudder!
:
Yes, there was the Feburary talk, over a year old now.
: And if you were at the meeting, where were you seated?
: Remember I video taped the event.
: I remember, and I saw you video taping.. I was seated in the back,
: the guy sitting next to Paul Vixie. I was the one who asked Bill when
: we'd get to see the goods and got flamed by Lynn for my trouble.
:
Well.... I remember now... pardon me for being rude
and not saying hi. However, I will agree with you
some of Lynn's comments were unwarrented.
: For what it's worth, I did post a review of the entire talk and then
: cancelled it again an hour later after some friends commented to me
: that flaming Bill, justifiably or not, was probably not going to do
: any good.
:
I'm glad you didn't. We need forward direction, not
more hand tieing (sp?).
: I, unlike Jesus here, decided that enough had probably been
: said about Bill already and they were right, so I cancelled it - it
: was rather vitriolic!
:
Ah... damm were's my dictionary. OK... I'm very gald
you did not post it.
: Those who subscribe to the freebsd-hackers list
: have seen it, however, since it's kind of hard to cancel something
: that's already been mailed! :)
:
Can I get a copy? Please.
=============================================================
On the meeting, I will agree with Jordan,
Lynn's comments were unwarrented and always
in the Lynn grand style. None the less,
she and Bill should not be castrated for
there comments at this meeting.
In some sense, the meeting was hostile and
spell binding. Why?!? because I saw people
from all bounds of the silicon valley:
HP, IBM, SUN, SGI, LINUX, MACH and others.
Do you think they had any problems with
their remarks? I would say yes, but
as computer scientist - we know what is new
and what is sensible. The ideas Bill and Lynn
spoke of in the meet take time to be investigated,
especially on a large system such as UNIX.
Please consider my call for a 386bsd Rel.1.0 SIG.
--
Jesus Monroy Jr jmonroy@netcom.com
Zebra Research
/386BSD/device-drivers /fd /qic /clock /documentation
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