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Path: sserve!manuel!munnari.oz.au!news.hawaii.edu!ames!olivea!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!newsun!gateway.novell.com!terry From: terry@npd.Novell.COM (Terry Lambert) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd Subject: Re: I wonder, did AT&T backstab BSDI? Keywords: AT&T speculation lawsuit BSDI Message-ID: <1992Jul29.224953.28161@gateway.novell.com> Date: 29 Jul 92 22:49:53 GMT References: <1992Jul29.144859.8222@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> <1992Jul29.174437.18606@gateway.novell.com> <1992Jul29.201919.15968@kithrup.COM> Sender: news@gateway.novell.com (NetNews) Organization: Novell NPD -- Sandy, UT Lines: 67 Nntp-Posting-Host: thisbe.eng.sandy.novell.com In article <1992Jul29.201919.15968@kithrup.COM> sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) writes: >In article <1992Jul29.174437.18606@gateway.novell.com> terry@thisbe.npd.Novell.COM (Terry Lambert) writes: >>Things AT&T owes to Berkeley: >>2) VFS >>3) Memory management strategies > >That's funny, I could have sworn that these actually came from SunOS. >Considering that 4.4ish is the first BSD system to have vnodes, and a decent >memory-management scheme, I don't see how SysVr4 (which has been out for a >couple of years now) could have gotten it from 4.4... One can also argue that VFS is an independant developement of AT&T on the basis of the file system switch constituting "prior art" in the neighborhood, and that Sun thus got it from AT&T. This would be wrong, but one could certainly argue it. Didn't virtual memory for UNIX systems come from System 3 work at UCB on the old PDP boxes? I seem to remember swapping as a requirement because of memory limitations AT&T never had to consider, given their ability to purchase and use sufficient memory without *needing* swapping. Things are invented when they are needed. If you are talking about modern paged memormory management alone, then you can probably make a case for Sun; but the point is that it certainly didn't originate with AT&T. >>4) Job control > >Other systems had job control long before BSD did. But not SVR4, which got it's code from Berkeley. >>5) csh > >I use bash or ksh. csh has too many problems. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it didn't come from Berkeley. >>8) mail/sendmail/smtp > >Other systems had smtp before, no? sendmail isn't that great, and there are >other systems that deliver mail without the horrible configuration problem >that sendmail is. And UNIX had mail *long* before UCB ever started playing >with unix! The mail code was based on the intermail code for the old Berknet, which in turn was derived from work done by Greg Haerr as a student at UCSD. This system had a seperate reader and poster mechanism, due to project requirements placed by the cognitive psychologist in charge. Let's see. Out of 10 "trade secrets" in use by USL, we have found one which we can argue started at USL, one which is of questionable, but undeniably non-AT&T origin, one which came from Berkeley by way of UCSD, and seven which are undeniably Berkeley in origin (two of which you personally don't like or had a hard time figuring out). I would like to claim a 90% Berkeley, 100% non-AT&T, but will settle for 70% Berkeley, 20% non-AT&T, and 10% contested. AT&T is still in the red, and this is only what I thought were the top 10, not a comprehensive list by any means! Terry Lambert terry_lambert@gateway.novell.com terry@icarus.weber.edu --- Disclaimer: Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.