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From: burgess@hrd769.brooks.af.mil (Dave Burgess)
Newsgroups: comp.os.386bsd.announce,comp.answers,news.answers
Subject: [comp.os.386bsd] BNR/2 derived BSD for PCs FAQ (Part 1 of 10)
Followup-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Date: 13 Dec 1993 06:00:08 -0000
Organization: Armstrong Laboratory, Brooks AFB, TX
Lines: 568
Sender: faq@hrd769.brooks.af.mil
Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.Edu
Distribution: world
Expires: 12/31/93
Message-ID: <386bsd-faq-1-755762418@hrd769.brooks.af.mil>
Reply-To: 386bsd-faq@hrd769.brooks.af.mil (386bsd FAQ Maintainer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hrd769.brooks.af.mil

Posted-By: auto-faq 2.4
Archive-name: 386bsd-faq/part1


			Frequently Asked Questions
		       386BSD, NetBSD, FreeBSD, and
		       other BNR/2 derived Operating 
		                 Systems.


		   	   EXTREMELY UNOFFICIAL


  Original FAQ by:
	Terry Lambert
	terry_lambert@gateway.novell.com
	terry@icarus.weber.edu


  New FAQ by:
	TSgt Dave Burgess
	NCOIC Armstrong Laboratory Management Systems Office
	Brooks AFB, TX
	burgess@hrd769.brooks.af.mil

			   Last Update:  27 Sep 1993 


Section 0.  (Basic FAQ information)

0.0	Introduction

	The 386BSD 0.1 operating system is a derivative of the Berkeley 
	Net/2 release.  The definitive "man without whom we would have 
	nothing" in this effort has been William Jolitz.  For more 
	information, download the code.

	386BSD is fully redistributable and is intended as a research OS.  
	As such, many contributions to the system are provided through 
	interaction by people who communicate via many means.  Many new 
	and innovative features have been added to 386BSD since it's 
	original release in June of '92.  There is an 'unofficial' 
	patchkit which is available from many anonymous FTP sources 
	which makes 386BSD more stable and usable.  Many problems 
	associated with the use of 386BSD Version 0.1 can be solved 
	through the application of patches from the patchkit.  In 
	addition, many common Unix packages have been ported with 
	varying degrees of difficulty.

	386BSD is available completely free of charge.  It is also 
	available on CD-ROM and many other methods, most of which end up 
	charging for 'media and handling costs'.  It is available by 
	Anonymous FTP and through FTP-Mail.  

	386BSD comes in three distinct pieces, each of which is 
	exclusive of the other two.  These distributions are called the 
	'bindist', 'srcdist', and 'etcdist'.  The bindist can be unloaded 
	from its native form (on about 10 diskettes) and loaded onto a 
	42Meg hard drive partition.  It is a fully functional system, 
	including gcc 1.39, all executables for normal Unix style 
	operation, and many other things.  The etc distribution includes 
	MANY additional programs (all with source) which extend the 
	functionality of 386BSD.  The srcdist is the source code for 
	386bsd, along with all of the header files not included in the 
	bindist.  All of the distributions and compilation files will 
	fit onto 180Meg of hard drive (barely).


0.1	About this FAQ.

	This FAQ consists of 10 parts:

		Section 0.  Basic FAQ information
		Section 1.  General Network Information
		Section 2.  Common installation questions
		Section 3.  Kernel Building and Maintenance
		Section 4.  Kernel Additions
		Section 5.  Kernel Replacement Parts
		Section 6.  Interaction with MS-DOS
		Section 7.  System Communication
		Section 8.  "Supported" Hardware List
		Section 9.  "Supported" Software List


0.2	Is 386bsd better than (your favorite operating system name here)?

	I decided to put this in section 0, primarily because it by far 
	the most asked and least useful question in comp.os.386bsd.*.  

	You will often see this question veiled as a request for a brief 
	description of the differences between 386bsd and (YFOS).  This 
	type of request, while seeming to be a reasonable one, is usually
	looked upon as either an attempt by some folks for the net to do 
	their homework, or as an attempt to start yet another flame-war.

	What is the answer to this question, then?
	
	No.  It is not.

	Nor is it any worse.

	It is DIFFERENT.  There are alternative Operating Systems 
	available, both free and commercial.  386bsd, NetBSD, FreeBSD, 
	and Linux are examples of "free" Unix style Operating Systems.

	Here are a brief list of differences between 386bsd and other 
	systems:

	1.  386bsd will not run DOS applications (yet).  There is 
	currently no DOS emulator.  People are working on it.  If you 
	want to help, contact Nate (nate@bsd.coe.montana.edu) and tell 
	him.  He will put you in contact with the right people.

	2.  386bsd is not binary compatible with anything but the other
	free BSD systems (NetBSD, FreeBSD, and their kith).

	If you want to add binary compatibility with some other system, 
	contact Bill and Lynne, or Nate, and volunteer.  NetBSD 0.8
	(right now) is actually 386bsd in a new suit.  The documentation 
	that comes with NetBSD goes into a great deal of detail about this.
	BTW, this binary compatibility has become backwards compatibility.
	The newer versions of NetBSD are implementing a new type of 
	executable format, wherein references to NULL will cause a core
	dump.  The format of the executable is said to be close to (if 
	not compatible with) BSDI's BSD/386 product.

	There is even a caveat on this compatibility.  Anything that uses 
	the original 'dbm' code (passwd database, etc.) will not work
	because all of the newer BSDs are using the new dbm code that was
	released as part of BSD 4.4.

	3.  FreeBSD is 386bsd 0.1 with the patchkit applied, and many of 
	the utilities in the system have been updated.  This system is not
	quite as leading edge as NetBSD and is intended to be used as a
	stable operating environment.  The emphasis seems to be on better
	packaging and improved operation.
	
	4.  386bsd does not feel like SysV; Linux does.  It feels more 
	like SysV than 386bsd does because of its strict compliance with 
	POSIX than any actual links with SysV.  Linus Torvalds wrote 
	Linux from scratch while a student in Finland.  Because of the 
	nature of Linux, it has been extended (through the liberal 
	application of BSD utilities) to feel more like a "University" 
	SysV system than a commercial release.

	5.  386bsd feels like BSD; Linux doesn't (for the most part).  

	Clifford Stoll talks about the 'West Coast/East Coast' feeling 
	of BSD/SysV in his book "The Cuckoo's Egg".  In keeping with 
	that, BSD feels like BSD/West Coast, Linux feels like SysV/East 
	Coast (actually, Finland is what it says on the passport, but 
	stay with me for a minute).   If you don't believe me, just 
	look at the primary U.S. archive sites.   Linux is available 
	from MIT, BSD is available from Berkeley.  Can't get much more 
	'Coast' than that. :-)

	6.  Linux, NetBSD, and 386bsd share two vitally important facets.  
	All are free and all include source.  They are all excellent, and 
	all fill a niche that the others would gladly leave available.  
	Also, don't forget one of the most important things; get what 
	your friends have.  Then they can help you.

	7.  Finally, remember that this FAQ and the comp.os.386bsd.* 
	groups are intended as places for 386bsd users and developers 
	to meet and discuss topics which are germain to the further 
	development of 386bsd.  For more information about Linux, you 
	can read the comp.os.linux newsgroup.


0.2.1	Are all of the BNR/2 derived systems binary compatible?  If not,
	what are the differences?

	NetBSD/1 runs 386BSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD/1 0.8, and most 
	BSDI executables.  However, due to upgrading to the latest 
	version of the UCB DB library, programs which use said 
	library cannot be mixed old and new; e.g. an old `ls' cannot 
	read the pwd.db file created with a new `pwd_mkdb', and vice 
	versa.  This caveat is also true of FreeBSD, though it cannot 
	run BSDI or NetBSD/1 0.9 executables.

	Also, due to better (read: properly) enforced address space
	protections, some incorrectly written programs which seemed to 
	work under 386BSD or NetBSD/1 0.8 will core dump under 
	NetBSD/1 0.9, even when recompiled.

	The default executable format produced by the NetBSD 0.9 `ld' i
	is not downward compatible with FreeBSD or 386BSD.  It is 
	essentially the same as BSDI's QMAGIC format and Sun's normal 
	format--with no padding between the exec header and the first 
	page of text, and with the first page of the address space 
	always unmapped when loaded--except that the magic numbers are 
	in the conventional `magic + machine id' format, and are in 
	network (big-endian) order.


0.3	How to add your pet answer to the FAQ.

	This is the trickiest part of this section of the FAQ.  There are 
	only two criteria for getting an entry made into the FAQ:

	1.  Your answer should answer a question that seems to come up
	    with some regularity, or at least perplexes a group of
	    people from time to time.

	2.  Your answer should be technically correct.  In other words,
	    answers like 'RTFM' and 'everybody knows that' are not really
	    good candidates for the FAQ.  These answers should spell out,
	    in a reasonable level of detail, precisely how to fix the
	    the question asked, or explain the basis for the answer and
	    leave the implementation of the answer to the questioner.

	All answers MUST include a question.  This is not as obvious as 
	it would seem at first glance.  An answer could solve many 
	problems, especially in the realms of system halts or other 
	catastrophes. 

	Since I (Dave) am no Unix guru, I rely HEAVILY on the input of 
	other people to make the FAQ a success.  Many questions in the 
	FAQ have been made largely irrelevant through the patchkits, but 
	that doesn't means they may not reappear.  That is why the old 
	FAQ questions are still here.

	New FAQ questions should be added.  I will try to attribute the 
	question/answer to the author, but I personally think this is a 
	waste of good disk space.  As long as the answers get out, that 
	should be reward enough :-)


0.4	Administrivia.

	Send all question/answer pairs to burgess@hrd769.brooks.af.mil.  
	If you are going to post the Q/A to the net, then do that, but 
	be sure to mark it as a FAQ entry.  I will get it from the net 
	as easily as I do my E-Mail.  Your Q/A will be formatted to 
	look more or less like the others and be added.  Corrections, 
	deletions, flames, snivels, and whines should be addressed 
	directly to me here.  Either way, I will be sure to send out a 
	reply letting you know what I have done with your submission.

	To get the absolutely most up-to-date (like to the minute) FAQ 
	set, you will need access to anonymous FTP.  FTP to 
	hrd769.brooks.af.mil and get the entire set out of ~/pub/FAQ.
	I have implemented the advanced FTP server, so you can request
	the files be compressed and/or tarred.  The file 'master.index' 
	is the list of all of the questions in the entire set.  It is
	included in FAQ_00 (below).

	One last thing.  I will assume that I am infalible. :-)  I will 
	not notice any mistakes that you may find.  If you find a 
	mistake and don't tell me, it will very likely stay a mistake.
	After all, if I didn't notice it before, why should I notice
	it now?


0.5	Master Index.

	0.0          Introduction
	0.1          About this FAQ.
	0.2          Is 386bsd better than (your favorite operating system
		     name here)? 
	0.2.1        Are all of the BNR/2 derived systems binary compatible?
		     If not, what are the differences? 
	0.3          How to add your pet answer to the FAQ.
	0.4          Administrivia.
	0.5          Master Index.
	1.0          What is 386BSD? (Taken from the INSTALL.NOTES by the
		     Jolitz's) 
	1.0.1        What are these other Free BSD systems?
	1.0.2        I just downloaded all of 386bsd version 0.1 and I get
		     can't get [some feature] to work? Do you have any
		     suggestions? 
	1.1          Feature summary
	1.2          The future of 386BSD.
	1.3          386BSD software projects in progress
	1.3.1        Contacting software authors
	1.4          Minimum hardware configuration recommended
	1.5          Where to get the source and binaries
	1.5.1        Forms available (floppy, FTP, CD-ROM)
	1.5.1.1      Where can I get the distribution on floppy or tape?
	1.5.1.2      Where can I get the distribution via FTP?
	1.5.1.3      Where can I get the distribution on CD ROM?
	1.6          Electronic Information Groups for 386BSD
	1.6.1        Usenet newsgroups
	1.6.2        Newsgroup archives.
	1.6.3        BNR/2 Derived bsd mailing lists.
	1.6.4        Other electronic resources.
	1.7          Documentation available
	1.7.1        BSD manuals
	1.7.2        BSD books
	1.7.3        The Jolitz Book
	1.7.4        Dr. Dobbs' journal
	1.7.5        Other FAQ's on the net that are relevant
	1.8          FTP sites for 386BSD
	1.8.1        FTP Site List
	1.8.2        Official distribution sites
	1.8.3        Reference sites
	1.8.4        Unofficial archive sites that have neat stuff!
	1.8.5        X for 386BSD 0.1 Ported Software List
	2.0          Install process
	2.0.1        Tiny boot disk (versions and media formats)
	2.0.1.1      Where does extract go when I reboot?
	2.0.1.2      I put the floppy in and try to boot, and nothing
		     happens. What now? 
	2.0.1.3a     The floppy booted, but now the hard disk won't boot?
	2.0.1.3b     I am trying to reinstall. I run install and it loops
		     asking me if I want to use the whole disk? 
	2.0.1.4      There are a bunch of flashing colored things on the
		     screen. Now what? 
	2.0.2        Fix-it boot disk
	2.1          Binary distribution
	2.2          Source distribution
	2.3          Additional software distribution
	2.4          Patch-kit
	2.5          Configuration
	2.5.1        Partitions
	2.5.1.1      What is a 'disklabel' and why do I need one?
	2.5.2        Common Disk Label Problems.
	2.5.2.1      Swap space.
	2.5.2.2      Increasing the 386bsd partition size.
	2.5.3        How do I set up the system so that I can boot from more
		     than one operating system/file-loader without using
		     floppies? 
	2.5.4        How do I disklabel my second hard drive?
	2.5.5        386bsd/NetBSD cannot handle disk geometry translations,
		     but it turns out that my disk geometry is translated. It
		     has five zones, each with a different sec/track! What
		     kind of things can I do about the disk translation my
		     hard disk controller uses? 
	2.6          Common installation problems.
	2.6.1        Swap space not identified correctly.
	2.6.2        Endless reboot cycles.
	2.7          The computer just sits there, or 'that isn't right'.
	2.7.1        The boot disk works all right on one computer but not
		     another. 
	2.7.2        The screen has "flashing multicolored characters and
		     ptdi81061 prompt" error? 
	2.7.3a       I get the error "isr 15 and error: isr 17" on an NE2000
		     card. 
	2.7.3b       I have some card on IRQ2 and it doesn't work; why?
	2.7.3c       I am getting lousy performance out of my network card.
		     What are some of the other possibilities? 
	2.7.4        What is the difference between IRQ2 and IRQ9? Are they
		     really the same, or are they really different? 
	2.7.5        Some of my SCSI devices (like a tape drive) don't work;
		     why? 
	2.7.6        I try to run 'ps' or 'w' and get ': cannot get namelist'
		     from the TinyBSD kernel. What did I do wrong? 
	2.7.7        I get a 'Floating point constant out of range' when I
		     try to compile package 'n'. What is broke? 
	2.7.8        I want to use the Adaptec 1542C SCSI controller. What
		     are the problems/tricks you need to know to get it
		     working? 
	2.7.9        Did anyone ever find out on how to use the 3c509
		     etherlink III card yet for bsd? 
	2.8          Other common problems that are attributed to the
		     installation process but are caused other places. 
	2.8.1        Why don't the man pages for "magic" and "file" work?
	2.8.2        Why is apropos broke?
	2.8.3        I want to use more than 16 Megabytes of memory. Will any
		     of the Net/2 derived BSD systems support it? 
	3.0          System Internals
	3.1          Kernel
	3.1.1        How do I build a kernel?
	3.1.2        I want to do one of the following things:
		     * add a device not in the distributed kernel (third com
		       port, additional disk or tape, line printer driver,
		       etc).
		     * use a patch from the net or the patchkit to fix a
		       kernel bug.
		     * add another swap device.
		     * recompile the kernel to remove extraneous devices so
		       that it takes up less space.
		     * configure more pseudo-terminals to allow for more
		       xterms or network logins. 
	3.1.3        I don't have the source distribution -- how can I
		     rebuild the kernel? 
	3.1.4        Now that I have a kernel, how do I install it?
	3.1.5        After installing the patchkit and recompiling the kernel
		     with the option "WD8013", I am no longer able to reboot
		     the machine. A cold boot (power on) runs fine, but after
		     a reboot no boot drive is found by the BIOS. Besides
		     having a 16-bit WD/SMC Ethernet card installed the
		     machines try to boot using either a Adaptec 1742 or 1542
		     SCSI board to boot from. 
	3.1.6        I found a bug in the kernel. How do I report it?
	3.2          What exactly is this config file, anyway? What are all
		     of these cryptic notations? 
	3.2.1        Okay, fine. Why shouldn't I just add every device I can
		     find to the kernel, so I'll never have to recompile this
		     again? 
	3.2.2        What should I remove from the kernel?
	3.2.3        I can't get enough remote login sessions or xterm
		     sessions. What can I do? 
	3.2.4        How do I get ddb, the kernel debugger, compiled into the
		     kernel and running? 
	3.2.5        Can I have more than one config file? Should I rename it
		     to something else? Any other hints? 
	3.2.6        What is the meaning of the trap codes I get in panic
		     messages? Sometimes this message appears in the form
		     "trap type nn". 
	3.2.7        I have been getting a lot of "virtual memory exhausted"
		     errors when I am compiling a program with a really big
		     static array. I have 128Meg of memory and 8Gig of swap.
		     How can this be happening? 
	3.2.8        Where can I learn more about all this?
	3.3          X11/XFree86/XS3
	3.3.1        What options should I define to get the X extensions
		     included? 
	3.3.2        Where can I get the FAQ for 'X'?
	3.3.3        Why does X drop characters when using xdm? When I run
		     xdm from the console, it keeps losing keystrokes and the
		     shift keys don't always work. Why? 
	3.4          Compiler and Library routines
	3.4.1        Which C compiler is shipped with my Net/2 derived BSD? 
	3.4.2        Where is libcompat.a?
	4.0          Introduction
	4.1          Common Kernel-related problems
	4.1.1        Where are the commands "rpcinfo" and "rpcgen"?
	4.1.2        Where can I get a working "netstat"?
	4.1.3        How can I fix NFS to work with my NE2000 board?
	4.1.4        How can I get "ps" and "w" to work?
	4.1.5        Where are re_comp and re_exec?
	4.1.6        Where are stty() and gtty()?
	4.1.7        The system hangs with the HD light on after intense disk
		     usage. 
	4.1.8        How do you implement quotas on Net/2 derived BSD
		     systems? 
	4.2          Available kernel add-ons
	4.2.1        The Patch-Kit
	4.2.2        Shared Libraries
	4.2.3        Sound Blaster Drivers
	4.2.4        Bus Mouse Drivers
	4.2.5        PPP Support
	4.2.6        re_comp and re_exec library functions
	4.2.7        Intel i82586 Ethernet Controller driver
	4.2.8        PC Speaker driver for Nethack
	5.0          Introduction
	5.1          Available Kernel Replacements
	5.1.1        keycap/codrv
	5.1.2        pcvt
	5.1.3        syscons
	5.1.4        Fast Symbolic Links
	5.1.5        npx fixes
	5.1.6        CGD's COM drivers
	5.1.7        Tom Ivar Helbekkmo's wd.c replacement
	5.1.8        Interruptless LPT Driver Kit
	5.2          Floppy Disk problems.
	5.2.1        How do I get a bootable floppy?
	5.3          Unit Record
	5.3.1        Printers
	5.3.2        Terminals/Keyboards
	5.3.3        Modems
	5.4          Tape Drives
	5.4.1        Does the tape need to be formatted?
	5.4.2        If I execute the command 'st -f /dev/st0 status', I get:
		     Archive/Tandberg? tape drive, residual=0, blocksize=512
		     Density: high = 16 (0x10), medium = 15 (0xf), low = 5
		     (0x5) ds=0 er=0 
	5.4.3        When is erst0 used?
	5.4.4        How is density (bpi) computed? I am using 3M DC 6250
		     cassettes which have a 250MB capacity on the Viper 150.
		     But computing the bits/inch based on 250MB/tape-length
		     (1020 ft.), I get a density of 171335 bpi, which is
		     nowhere near the 10000 bpi associated with QIC-150 in
		     the st(1) man page. Why the discrepancy? 
	5.4.5        How is an appropriate block size determined (and in what
		     units are they specified in the st(1) command)? 
	5.4.6        From the 4.3BSD mtio(4) man page, it sounds like data is
		     typically (traditionally?) stored on tape in
		     eof-terminated sequences of 1K records. 
	5.4.6.1      Is st's notion of "file" the record sequence between two
		     eof marks? 
	5.4.6.2      What about a "record"?
	5.4.6.3      Is a "record" one "block", as determined by st's
		     "blocksize" command? If not, what is the connection
		     between them? 
	5.4.6.4      Can I change the "record" size?
	5.4.6.5      When would I want a block size that is different from
		     the default? 1KB is the size of writes used by dd or
		     whatever. QIC specifies 512 byte records (well at least
		     its what people use..) Whatever you write in will be
		     broken into 512 byte sections. They must be multiples of
		     512 though. 
	5.4.7a       How do I write several archives to a single tape? I
		     tried without success: $ st -f /dev/rst4 rewind $ tar cf
		     /dev/nst4 archive1 $ st -f /dev/nrst4 weof $ tar cf
		     /dev/nst4 archive2 $ st -f /dev/nrst4 weof 
	5.4.8b       Later, I would expect to be able to access, say,
		     archive3 via the fsf directive to skip over the first
		     two archives. What is the correct sequence? 
	5.4.9        Since the Viper 150 writes on QIC-150/120, I guess I
		     don't need to worry about writing variable-length
		     records? How about reading a tape written with
		     variable-length records. Is this possible with the
		     Viper? If so, what's involved? 
	5.4.10       The very scant documentation that came with my drive
		     mentions a "selectable buffer disconnect size," whose
		     default is 16K. This is evidently the "maximum number of
		     bytes that can be sent over the SCSI bus during a single
		     data transfer phase." What's that? How is it connected
		     st's "blocksize" command? Do I want to use 16K blocks,
		     or might I even want to set the disconnect size to a
		     higher value? 
	5.4.11       What is "streaming"? When I tar a directory of files to
		     tape, I notice that the tape often stops. Streaming
		     means it doesn't stop? How would I get the viper 150 to
		     stream using tar or cpio or dump? 
	5.4.12       Where are all the answers to the above and related
		     questions written down? Neither on the net nor in the
		     4.3BSD manuals nor Administration text which I have
		     could I find this stuff covered! 
	5.4.13       What else should I know? For example, it seems that a
		     new tape must stretched. How is this done? 
	5.5          Network
	5.6          Marc Mengel's <mengel@fnal.gov> driver list
	6.0          Working with DOS and BNR/2 related software.
	6.1          Formatting a floppy
	6.2          Sharing the Disk with MS-DOS
	6.2.1        How can I partition my drive to support both MS-DOS and
		     386bsd? 
	6.2.2        I can install using the whole disk, but I can't install
		     when I try to share the drive between 386bsd and MS-DOS.
		     Why? 
	6.2.3        I can use either MS-DOS or 386BSD on my hard drive, but
		     shutdown -todos doesn't seem to work. 
	6.2.4        Is there any hope of ever running MS-DOS applications
		     under any of the free BSD systems? 
	6.3          Accessing the MS-DOS filesystem
	6.4          NFS/PC-NFS support
	6.4.1        Can I use 8K packets for NFS? When I try, I have all
		     kinds of problems. 
	6.4.2        How do I get around the NFS "Permission denied" error? 
	6.4.3        What does the message "BAD MNT RPC: RPC Authentication
		     error; why = Invalid client credential" mean when I try
		     to mount something from another machine? 
	6.4.4        What does the message "Bad MNT RPC: RPC: Authentication
		     error; why = Client credential too weak" mean when I try
		     to mount something from another machine? 
	6.4.5        I get a lot of 'ring buffer overflow' messages using NFS
		     and the ed0 driver. Is there a problem? 
	6.4.6        Is there any PC software that will allow me to use my
		     enormous PC with all of the unsupported hardware as a
		     PC-NFS server? 
	7.0          Communications
	7.1          SLIP
	7.2          CSLIP
	7.3          PPP
	7.4          TCP/IP
	7.5          UUCP
	7.5.1        TIP/CU
	7.6          Terminals
	8.0          What hardware is 386BSD known to run on and support!
	8.1          System brand names
	8.2          Motherboards
	8.3          Video cards
	8.4          Mice
	8.5          Serial Cards
	8.5.1        How do I configure multiport cards?
	8.6          Disk Controllers
	8.7          SCSI Controllers
	8.8          Network Cards
	8.9          Printers
	8.10         TAPE Drives
	8.11         CD-ROMs
	9.0          What GNU software has been tested and is working with
		     Net/2 derived BSD systems for the 386? 
	9.1          Has anyone ever gotten news to work?