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Xref: sserve comp.periphs.scsi:16005 comp.os.386bsd.development:1580 Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi,comp.os.386bsd.development Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!munnari.oz.au!news.Hawaii.Edu!ames!agate!tfs.com!julian From: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: aha2742. why no 386bsd driver soon. Message-ID: <CHssD8.1qt@tfs.com> Sender: usenet@tfs.com Organization: TRW Financial Systems, Oakland, CA References: <CHqzyL.LBH@tfs.com> <2e8bh4$ipq@mckinley.cit.macalstr.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 02:31:56 GMT X-Original-Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi,comp.os.386bsd.development Lines: 179 In article <2e8bh4$ipq@mckinley.cit.macalstr.edu>, Scott Ferris <sferris@budapest.math.macalstr.edu> wrote: >Julian Elischer (julian@TFS.COM) wrote: >> Many people have asked me when (or if) I would write a driver for the adaptec >> 2740 family of boards. > >> In response to this I have been trying for 4 weeks to get information >> from the folks at adaptec. > > And probably (though understandably), asked for the wrong ones. > (And I have you beat. I've been calling since August. :) No, I have asked for the correct books, and even given the part numbers 2740 Technical Reference 510380-00 Rev. A AIC 7770 Design-In Guide 510346-00 Rev. A AIC 7770 Data Book 510361-00 Rev. A and so far I have received: 2 copies of the 28xxVL dales gunf. one fax of the silly doc I typed out none of the above documentation requested. > > >> This basically sums up why you will probably not see a driver for this board >> for any of the free Operating systems soon.. >> (unless someone does something pretty fancy) > > Like call Adaptec Literature and ask for: > > AIC-7770 Data Book. I tried this (see part numbers above) they point blank REFUSED to send it to me and forwarded me to the people who then Faxed me the silly form to fill in. (I tried this several times) > > It describes the registers, sequencer instruction >formats, op codes, and includes functional descriptions of the chip, >as well as timing diagrams, and all the misc. stuff you were >probably expecting in the Tech Ref and didn't find. I know what's in it.. I just can't GET it.!! > >> After the excerpt, I discuss a few points > > >> ============cut here for excerpts from adaptec information========== every comment ion the exerpt was from them not from me so your answers to these points are well taken, but I wasn't asking the questions.. thanks anyhow.. the comments afterwards are another matter [ adaptec doc deleted] > >> ================end of extract=============== > > >> The way I read this.. I cannot publish the drivers in any meaningful way >> that makes sense in a "source code distribution" OS like 386bsd or linux. > > I'll be writing my own microcode for a Linux driver. The >*BSD folks can do what they wish. I will not be directly supporting >any of the *BSD variants, though eventually the Linux driver >will make it onto the Linux FTP sites, and anyone who wants to can >try to port it. I would certainly be interested in working on this with you on this. and also anyone else who may be working on it (I have had another lead (where I got the part numbers)) > > >> It's also doubtful that adaptec would let me, as an individual >> let me have this information anyhow. So I can't see a driver for this board > > Call and ask for the AIC-7770 Data book. Unlike the 174x series, >the 2740 Tech Ref manual is *not* what all you need to write a driver. >Be sure to ask for documentation you need. I'll grant you I had >an advatange in this, as someone in Europe who does business with >Adaptec had the Tech Ref manual, saw one of my first postings >on the subject, and gave me the titles of the other manuals it references. >Still, don't you think it might have been a good idea to look at *all* >of the documentation Adaptec gives out for free before you start >posting blanket condemnations? (and no, I don't need to hear a lot of >Adaptec horror stories. I've already heard them. Yes, Adaptec can be >obnoxious, and their hardware may not be the best. But they >are *not* trying to keep the aic-7770 some big secret. My guess is they're >just trying to get a degree of quality control over what is effectively >the "firmware" that every aic-7770 driver has to download) I do understand this, but they seem to have been recently advised by their patent people (or something) to tighten their ship.. I am having trouble getting through to them, they even have a note in the literature dept. (so I'm told) telling them that they are not to send out docs about the AIC7770. So they refused to send me this information. This is after I quoted the part numbers and titles, so I was not condemming without TRYing .. In fact I am continuing my attempts.. I just keep hitting a brick wall.. anyhow, I have another request for some of these books that hasn't resulted in a set of pamphlets yet 8-) so mayby the third try might still turn up the right stuff. > > >> appearing real soon. Some people may be able to get specs for the chip >> and board directly, but it seems unlikely to me from my discussions > > Try again. In my experience with Adaptec, if you ask for a specific >title, and they actyally have it written , they will send it to you. >Without asking for an NDA or any other license or contract. My requests for the books resulted in the NDA fax. > >> today, as they suggested that this information was all hush hush too. >> If they do, then maybe a PD driver can be written to bypass the HIM rubish. > > Who were you talking to? about 5 people in a row, starting with "Colin Gregor" and the literature department staff (and their supervisor). Not to mention the tech support staff and about 3 operators and receptionists. > >> Unfortunatly, they will probably feel free to change the hardware interface >> without warning, as they feel they have protected themselves from this if they >> can hide this in their HIM code.. So If I bypass the HIM >> code , we cannot be sure our code will always work. > > They're hiding their code, yes. But not the raw hardware >itself. Since when is this uncommon? And yes, they could >gratuitously change their hardware, but that won't work in >the long run. They can't change it after you've bought it, >and in any case I suspect your suspicions are based more on >your incorrect view of the documentation situation, rather >than anything Adaptec told you directly they were going to do. > True, but the situation with the documentation is a lot worse than you encountered for some reason.... > > It's just a sequencer. I try to avoid the marketing types >and just stick with tech support and Literature. Makes life >much more pleasant. > >> end of rave > > hopefully end of thread too, though I doubt I'll be so lucky. :) well, not quite, but I'd Love to co-operate with you on this.. julian > >> +----------------------------------+ ______ _ __ >> | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / On assignment >> | / \ julian@tfs.com +------>x USA \ in a very strange >> | ( OZ ) 300 lakeside Dr. oakland CA. \___ ___ | country ! >> +- X_.---._/ USA+(510) 645-3137(wk) \_/ \\ >> v > >-- >Scott Ferris, sferris@math.macalstr.edu >LaserMaster Inc, >Macalester College, >and points in between. > -- +----------------------------------+ ______ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / On assignment | / \ julian@tfs.com +------>x USA \ in a very strange | ( OZ ) 300 lakeside Dr. oakland CA. \___ ___ | country !