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Newsgroups: comp.os.386bsd.misc Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!munnari.oz.au!constellation!osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!kithrup.com!sef From: sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan) Subject: Re: Status on discussed merge between NetBSD and FreeBSD Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. References: <JKH.93Nov13222001.2@whisker.lotus.ie> <CGD.93Nov14085627@eden.cs.berkeley.edu> <CGHs3y.Au2@kithrup.com> <CGD.93Nov14100033@eden.cs.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <CGHv40.BKF@kithrup.com> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 18:23:43 GMT Lines: 97 In article <CGD.93Nov14100033@eden.cs.berkeley.edu> cgd@eden.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Chris G. Demetriou) writes: >i don't see anyone shouting usually, except you, sean. and invariably >you can't take it if people shout, or even peep, back. Really? Please, tell me why you blind yourself to deraadts wonderful comments of "asshole" or "fuck off" whenever someone disagrees with him, or messages from mycroft that have: From: Charles Hannum <mycroft@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: bootblocks, AST Bravo's, what is DEBUG_VECTOR ? You are such a cocky prick, I wonder if I should even bother to explain why you are wrong. (Note that when he was asked to apologise, his response was that he didn't give a damn.) And I know you saw that, chris, because you're on the mailing list. Unfortunately, I didn't save either of the messages from both those two that caused me to swear off of netbsd. >perhaps the "us vs. them" comes from being pretty-much blindsided by >the announcement? Really? It was discussed, I know. Maybe you should talk to the other people you let run your system, and find out what they've been saying to the freebsd folks. >Or perhaps some details from Jordan >as to why FreeBSD decided to make this announcement... I think you already know that. Or did you think that removing CVS access for only the freebsd folks was going to have no ramifications? You know, I bet wjf thought the same thing about you. >i'm sorry; NetBSD simply doesn't have resources to support the development >of NetBSD *and* the development of another operating system, as well. Yeah, what does this mean? Oh, wait, you describe it below: >Remember: we're not making any money off of this, and thus far i've sunk >about 15k into hardware for this project. There are simply not the >resources for people who aren't doing development to eat disk space and >CPU cycles on lamp for the purposes of sucking changes into their >own system, so they can claim it's "better," and not give us properly- >attributed credit for the work we've done. The day that i started >seeing postings on FreeBSD mailing lists which had no body, and only >a subject which said "Has anybody picked up XXX from NetBSD yet?" >where XXX was the "neat feature of the day," i lost all faith in >FreeBSD's development process. Ah. So you *don't* want "your" system to be free, you don't want it to be picked up by other people, and you don't want to share stuff that's been contributed to you. (And, yes, people can go get netbsd-current each day... that eats up more bandwidth and cycles. But, then, you're not paying for sun-lamp's net connection, so I guess you don't care about that. They also lose the ability to look at the comments in the commit message, do a cvs diff, and see the history of the changes.) Real open. The "net" out of "netbsd" *did* mean that it was to be open to basicly anyone who wanted to participate, didn't it? Now: I've not seen any of the freebsd people publicly claim that freebsd is "better." I have seen netbsd folks, including yourself, say why netbsd is "better," and, either say directly or imply, what losers the freebsd folks are. Oh, and yeah: tell me why you removed me? Guess what I did when I looked at the cvs modules on sun-lamp? Checked out things for my apartmentmate. Who runs netbsd. Oopsie. I guess people who live with people on the freebsd list are persona non grata as well, huh? >The fact that, for the most part, the FreeBSD "developers" used their >accounts on sun-lamp *only* for the purpose of snarfing revisions of >our code and migrating it to FreeBSD revolted me, and it still does. Oh, yeah. Can't share free code, can you? Or are you making it not free? Tell me... what have you been doing on your freefall account? Somehow I can't believe you were checking in changes for freebsd... or maybe you were. >The point is that the changes that went in WEREN'T TESTED, they >broke in HORRIBLE WAYS (the last of which are only being discovered), >and it's taken them two weeks to figure them out. If you're going to make >a change that major, TEST IT FIRST; we do! Uhm, hate to tell you this, buddy, but the shared libraries are still being tested. Or have you seen a release of freebsd that has shared libraries? Did shared libraries work the first day under netbsd? The main answer that the freebsd folks gave to "which is better" used to be... neither, really, we share a lot of code. Guess they'll have to change that now. And guess who was responsible for that? One single, hurt person. Am I the only one who sees similarities between this and the jolitzes?