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Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd Path: sserve!manuel!munnari.oz.au!mips!mips!darwin.sura.net!eng.ufl.edu!wasp.eng.ufl.edu!john From: john@wasp.eng.ufl.edu (John Paul O'Brien) Subject: Re: Funding 4.4BSD Development Message-ID: <1992Jun30.103533.5424@eng.ufl.edu> Sender: news@eng.ufl.edu (Usenet Diskhog System) Reply-To: john@solar.nova.edu (John Paul O'Brien) Organization: Nova University Network Services References: <18729@plains.NoDak.edu> <1992Jun27.160309.21709@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 92 10:35:33 GMT I don't know what happened with my posting. Thanks to SEF for pointing out the problem to me. Here it is again (I hope!). In article <1992Jun27.160309.21709@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes: >In article <18729@plains.NoDak.edu> tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu (Mark Tinguely) writes: > >: >: Let us all admit there is a want for support code -- be it from DEC, >: SunSoft, BSDI, etc. There is a need for BSDI-like support. As a personal >: thought, I wish it did not come at such a high price (a wedge between >: 386bsd and bsd386 forces). I've been reading all this for the past few days and I feel I have to put in my two cents worth. Why has this become such a highly debated issue. We first started using BSD at Nova on Vaxen (BSD4.1 way back in 1983 or 1984) because that was the ONLY way we could get access to a "reasonable" Unix based operating system. We had been running on a DECSystem 2060 before the Vaxen came along and we were happy with the level of SUPPORT we received from DEC on the TOPS-20 O/S. Monthly patch listing with SOURCE and complete on-line source to some of the utilitys (PTYCON comes to mind). We went to BSD because VMS support was just not there and they did not give you the source (Microfiche of Bliss-32 doesn't cut it in my book.) At least with BSD we had complete source and access to gurus via USENET. We also had access to a LOT of neat things that were not available for VMS. Then DEC came out with Ultrix (which I admit, at the time Ultrix 1.2 came out it was a poorly repackaged version of BSD 4.2). [I wonder if this much debate went on when DEC introducted Ultrix for the Vax.] But we switched to Ultrix because by this time (1986-1987?) our userbase had grown so large that we were spending more time doing in-house end user support than O/S hacking. We just could not afford to do our own O/S support anymore. We were paying for the support service that DEC offered. I don't recall anybody beating up on DEC at the time when they were charging support fees while an almost identical copy of the O/S was available at a nominal charge from CSRG. Time has passed and I never did qualify as a BSD hacker anyway. I've forgotten too much (not that I knew too much to begin with (:-) ) and I just don't have the time anymore to devote to such pursuits as trying to support the O/S AND the users. I feel that BSDI is doing a wonderful service to the BSD community. They are insuring that the time, effort and talent that was CSRG will not disappear as "part of" this huge thing the other vendors are working on (SVR4). And they are doing it on the most widely available platform on the planet. I know 386bsd is out there but there is no way I can get the level of support for it that I have received from the folks at BSDI at a fraction of the cost I am paying to Sun and DEC for systems that basically do the same thing. And I can no longer afford the time and effort to do my own O/S support. BSDI is small enough and talented enough that they can make good on providing the highest level of service and support I've seen in a long time. The only other company I deal with on a regular basis that also has me speaking to the same support person for different calls is cisco Systems. I like being able to deal with the same person time and again, especially when they are able to get me pointed in the right direction with as little pain and time as possible. One thing I do see that is missing is publically available end-user applications that meet or exceed what is available commercially. Things that would replace Lotus, SAS, Framemaker, etc. would make these BSD based O/Ss (whether 386bsd from the Jolitz's or BSD/386 from BSDI) really attractive to end users. I'm sure this would create a market for Cygnus to do support for these types of applications, not just system tools. I'm very happy to pay BSDI a fee to do my O/S support for me so that I can focus on what I'm paid to do; support the users at my university. ================================================================================ John Paul O'Brien, Manager of Network Services and Distributed Systems Nova University, Network Services and Distributed Systems 3301 College Avenue, Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. 33314 Phone: (305) 475-7633 Internet: john@solar.nova.edu -- John Paul O'Brien, Manager of Network Services and Distributed Systems Nova University, Network Services and Distributed Systems 3301 College Avenue, Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. 33314 Phone: (305) 475-7633 Internet: john@solar.nova.edu