Return to BSD News archive
Xref: sserve comp.os.os2.programmer:11044 comp.os.coherent:8998 comp.os.linux:35357 comp.os.mach:2748 comp.os.minix:21885 comp.periphs:3510 comp.unix.bsd:11872 comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit:2424 comp.os.386bsd.development:512
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.programmer,comp.os.coherent,comp.os.linux,comp.os.mach,comp.os.minix,comp.periphs,comp.unix.bsd,comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit,comp.os.386bsd.development
Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!munnari.oz.au!news.Hawaii.Edu!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!news.byu.edu!cwis.isu.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!cs.weber.edu!terry
From: terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C)
Subject: Re: QIC NEWS vol.1 Special Edition #1
Message-ID: <1993Apr21.194624.7170@fcom.cc.utah.edu>
Keywords: QIC FDC NEWS
Sender: news@fcom.cc.utah.edu
Organization: Weber State University (Ogden, UT)
References: <jmonroyC5py56.B85@netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 93 19:46:24 GMT
Lines: 119
Basically, I have tended to give Mr. Monroy the benefit of the doubt,
given that other people are willing to vouch for his work (I have not seen
anything of this other than his "QIC NEWS for 386bsd", but have talked to
people doing alpha testing of his floppy driver); however, I must take issue
with some of his recent editorial comments.
In article <jmonroyC5py56.B85@netcom.com> jmonroy@netcom.com (Jesus Monroy Jr) writes:
> =============================================================
> [The Great Prophets]__
> =============================================================
> mail kew@timesink.spk.wa.us
> re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Kindeling material... Send ...
[ ... ]
> >> Having delved into both the BSD and Linux worlds, I find it
> >> distressing that the BSD world seems to populated by
> >> @emph{wizards} that claim to know what is best for us and
> >> are reluctant to let others participate in their little
> >> game (I'm thinking of the Great Patchkit Debate here).
> >>
> The ever present Great Patchkit debate.
Your views on the patchkit are clear; however, I will remind you of several
facts you have seemed to overlook in their formation, or perhaps simply
chosen to ignore for convenience sake:
1) From the start, the patch kit has been a volunteer effort; anyone
who has volunteered has been accepted; within the constraints of
centralized integration of patches necessitated by the tools
available for patch generation (diff -c) and patch installation
(patch).
2) Without question, these constraints are obvious to all but the most
casual observer of source code projects given the tools available
and the necessity of not including cvs/sccs/rcs or other source code
maintenance archives on target machines due to some users need for
sparing use of disk space. I would also point out that that these
are precisely the users who most need a patchkit style interface
to do their updates for them.
3) You underestimate the work required. Were it still "my baby", I
would give you a shot at doing a release to better educate you to
this fact. It's fine to come up with a plan to bell the cat as
long as you are not the one who has to do it. Even without your
suggestion that weekly releases are "required" in your previous
posting, your suggestions regarding the patchkit have been naieve.
4) I made clear in the first patchkit and in the first FAQ (I wrote
both of them) that anyone was welcome to do anything they wanted
to replace, update, or supercede either of them. It's not a
question of territoriality, it's a question of providing a choice
and the resulting sour grapes when you aren't chosen.
> >> This is unfortunate, since most of these gurus are old
> >> VAXen and know so very little about the PC architecture.
> >> Note the lack of floppy formatting ability as a prime
> >> example of their arrogance.
> >>
> Yes, It is too bad most of these guys are really good
> programmers.
The only issue I have observed that was even remotely tinged with the "all
the world's a VAX" syndrome has been the autoconfiguration debate, and
even there it has not escalated to the level of vehemence you seem to be
trying to incite.
As to floppy formatting, you obviously missed the following articles:
<1asvcfINN7qu@network.ucsd.edu> (wherein Brian Kantor discusses his approach)
<wutcd.721147077@hadrian> (wherein Joerg Wunsch discusses floppy issues)
<wutcd.721147522@hadrian> (wherein he provides a floppy format program)
Not suprising, since they were posted in comp.unix.bsd 6 months ago for the
first article and 5 months ago for the second and third. Add the Bruce
Evans hacks for spl problems, and I have been happily formatting for a
long time without problems.
> >> You provide a near-constant source of irritance that continues
> >> to nip at the heels of those self-proclaimed @vile{High Priests}
> >> of BSD. I find that amusing.
> >>
> I am going to quote the above without your name for the
> next "QICNEWS"
This is what I call "the fallacy of 'the grumpy old guy'"; restated simply,
it is the idea that "a grumpy yet benevolent old guy" can get more work
out of a group of people than eliciting their willing cooperation.
As far as "BSD High Priest status" is concerned, I currently recognize
only Messers Karels, McKusik, Jolitz, Joy, Mosher, Cooper, Fabry, and a
few others. I certainly don't "proclaim" myself into their circle.
==========================================================================
This is not a condemnation of your efforts, which may be very real; it is
a condemnation of your admixture of politics and what could otherwise be
a worthwhile technical discussion.
Please refrain from blatant political soapboxing in a supposedly technical
discussion/report; if necessary, post seperately. Including politcal fodder
with technical materials does not add credence to the politics expressed: it
detracts from whatever merits the technical arguments may have.
With your continued elevation of the political over the technical, it is
becoming increasingly difficult to disregard the bickering and consider
your postings on their technical merits alone; I am sure this has resulted
in your name ending up in some kill files; please do not make mine one of
them.
Terry Lambert
terry@icarus.weber.edu
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I have an 8 user poetic license" - me
Get the 386bsd FAQ from agate.berkeley.edu:/pub/386BSD/386bsd-0.1/unofficial
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------